Fragillimus335
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 8, 2014 6:07:04 GMT 5
Could anyone point me to any evidence of cats preying on eagles that isn't from a 17th century newspaper? Like pictures please?? lol
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Fragillimus335
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Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 8, 2014 6:30:07 GMT 5
Scale of the combatants. Rough*  Richard R. Olendorff, 1976 record two instances of Golden Eagles preying on Bobcats, probably adult, as the authors state in parenthesis if the animal is juvenile in other species. Also very impressive is that 127 adult mule deer were taken! That's a ~150-300lb animal!! Killed by a ~10-15lb bird!  |
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Post by theropod on May 8, 2014 16:04:01 GMT 5
pcktsI have read it, I was the one who posted it sunshine! And it is not an instance of a cat preying on an eagle btw. Repeating the same stuff doesn't help your point at all. As I already pointed out the bobcat in the video where it chases off the eagle is likely considerably larger than the bird. That video is in fact impressive footage of how quick the reaction speed of the eagle is. And yes, bobcats can get to 40lb, but their average weight is far lower than that. I already explained it, so please pay attention! Weasel1. That you like to ignore house cats doesn't mean everybody else has to commit the same fallacy. 2. You can not tell it is a kitten. 3. same as 1.)
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pckts
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Post by pckts on May 8, 2014 22:10:04 GMT 5
I love the "probably adult" part
hahahaha
You mean most definitely cubs.
The only cat that is fitting in a eagles nest is one it can carry. There is NO way it is carrying a 40lb adult or 30lb female adult to its nest. It is impossible.
2nd, only 2 out of every single thing hunted and 80% are the size of squirrels, rodents, and hares that is ever more proof that no way it is taking a adult bobcat.
Look at it
Skunks, praire dogs, Marmots, Moles, Opposum etc... all the size of a house cat, and all smaller than a bobcat and way less equipped.
Not sure where you got your mule deer # from, it says nothing about it there. 2ndly, if there where 127 mule deer deaths, you would surely be able to show me just one!
Theropod, you certainly did not post it, I did!
Now, show me weights of Bobcats, ages, sex, then show me the tables you made that proves 40lbs for a bobcat is way higher than there average for males.
The bobcat is the same size as the eagle in the vid, the eagle has every right to protect its fresh fawn kill, yet it not only gives it up, it has to avoid becoming dinner.
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Fragillimus335
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 8, 2014 22:32:24 GMT 5
I love the "probably adult" part hahahaha You mean most definitely cubs. The only cat that is fitting in a eagles nest is one it can carry. There is NO way it is carrying a 40lb adult or 30lb female adult to its nest. It is impossible. 2nd, only 2 out of every single thing hunted and 80% are the size of squirrels, rodents, and hares that is ever more proof that no way it is taking a adult bobcat. Look at it Skunks, praire dogs, Marmots, Moles, Opposum etc... all the size of a house cat, and all smaller than a bobcat and way less equipped. Not sure where you got your mule deer # from, it says nothing about it there. 2ndly, if there where 127 mule deer deaths, you would surely be able to show me just one! Theropod, you certainly did not post it, I did! Now, show me weights of Bobcats, ages, sex, then show me the tables you made that proves 40lbs for a bobcat is way higher than there average for males. The bobcat is the same size as the eagle in the vid, the eagle has every right to protect its fresh fawn kill, yet it not only gives it up, it has to avoid becoming dinner.
Wrong again, on all points: Mean male bobcat is 8.4kg, or 18.5lbs. Out of a sample of 388 cats.
Denying evidence in a scientific document is silly and fan-boyish. The authors state when the animal in question is a juvenile, and they didn't for the bobcat. That means they were at least subadults. The table is for predation, not necessarily carrying the prey. Of course bobcats are rare prey, they are extremely dangerous and have a good chance of killing the eagle. The mule deer statistics are on the next page, along with caribou and other deer species. Badger and porcupine were also taken. These animals are not "house cat" sized and smaller. Ignoring info indicates you are biased in this debate.
Here is your deer info. Now try and actually provide scientific evidence of bobcats preying on eagles and I might pay attention. Also let us not forget that these are ~12lb eagles preying on bobcats. A 18-20lb eagle would certainly have an easier time. |
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Post by theropod on May 8, 2014 23:00:42 GMT 5
And I guess you think adult reindeer are carried to eagle’s nest, and are therefore about 5kg in weight? Wake up! Eagles don’t only kill prey small enough to carry to their nests, just as crocodiles don’t only kill prey small enough to swallow hole. The study you posted to support that examined harpy nest sites. Of course you won’t find animals considerably larger than a harpy eagle in a nest, no matter how many it kills, because it cannot carry them up there. You also will never find an adult eland carried into a tree by a leopard… A maximum prey size of 8kg fits that fact perfectly. And believe it or not, bobcats’ diet is actually quite similar to golden eagle’s in terms of the size and the species that are taken. That’s again golden eagles’ diet sunshine! Golding eagles killing such formidable formidable opponents as big as, or bigger than themselves is quite impressive. And badgers, racoons and possums were also fairly flexible animals the last time I checked. As a matter of facts, that paper lists the mule deer deaths. It is on the next page, as you may have noticed the first page is not the whole paper. As a matter of fact, I did: theworldofanimals.proboards.com/post/14831/threadThe question is, how long do you want to continue either denying or lying about other people’s information? How about doing the reverse: Since 40lb is clearly at the upper end of weights listed for male bobcats on any source you can find, show me evidence for it being anything but way higher than average? Ah! II thought bobcats routinely got to 40lbs, far otuweighing even a harpy? But this one was somehow the same size as the golden eagle? Doesn’t that seem a tiny little bit hypocritical to you? The bobcat was leaping at it. The logical reaction to that is to evade it, since the chances of a sucessful counterattack would have been slim. An eagle in a fighting situation would probably do the same and attack from above. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 9, 2014 2:13:16 GMT 5
pcktsI have read it, I was the one who posted it sunshine! And it is not an instance of a cat preying on an eagle btw. Repeating the same stuff doesn't help your point at all. As I already pointed out the bobcat in the video where it chases off the eagle is likely considerably larger than the bird. That video is in fact impressive footage of how quick the reaction speed of the eagle is. And yes, bobcats can get to 40lb, but their average weight is far lower than that. I already explained it, so please pay attention! Weasel1. That you like to ignore house cats doesn't mean everybody else has to commit the same fallacy. 2. You can not tell it is a kitten. 3. same as 1.) House and feral cats are way below any wild cat there is a reason birds of prey only kill domestic/semi domestic cats at parity, even then it will be hard for an eagle. I might have been exaggerating when I said kitten but its NOT an adult. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 9, 2014 2:22:26 GMT 5
Harpy eagles don't kill adult bobcats  and it does not matter if the this fight actually is parity because the eagle is losing either way ! |
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Fragillimus335
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 9, 2014 3:07:56 GMT 5
Harpy eagles don't kill adult bobcats and it does not matter if the this fight actually is parity because the eagle is losing either way ! Yeah, because they live in different parts of the world. lol If golden eagles can do it occasionally a Harpy certainly could. Birds are almost always the winners at parity, but you could try and post actual scientific evidence to the contrary, but you seem reluctant. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 10, 2014 2:17:38 GMT 5
Harpy eagles don't kill adult bobcats and it does not matter if the this fight actually is parity because the eagle is losing either way ! Yeah, because they live in different parts of the world. lol If golden eagles can do it occasionally a Harpy certainly could. Birds are almost always the winners at parity, but you could try and post actual scientific evidence to the contrary, but you seem reluctant. Golden eagles don't kill adult bobcats . Birds never win at parity they only kill housecats and even then it is not easy. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 10, 2014 2:20:37 GMT 5
"Fragillimus335" I still don't know why you post pictures of birds of prey killing HOUSECATS and SERVAL KITTENS and try to use it as so called evidence that eagles can kill cats at parity.
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Post by theropod on May 10, 2014 2:21:03 GMT 5
The fact that domestic cats are commonly found as diet of golden and bald eagles, as well as that there are reports of hawks killing house cats, somehow makes me doubt that.
Because it is evidence for just that. If you haven’t gotten it by now, I fear we can’t help you.
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Fragillimus335
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 10, 2014 8:13:15 GMT 5
Yeah, because they live in different parts of the world. lol If golden eagles can do it occasionally a Harpy certainly could. Birds are almost always the winners at parity, but you could try and post actual scientific evidence to the contrary, but you seem reluctant. Golden eagles don't kill adult bobcats . Birds never win at parity they only kill housecats and even then it is not easy. Perhaps you failed to read the SCIENTIFIC PAPER THAT SAYS OTHERWISE. Your opinion is not fact. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 10, 2014 10:24:17 GMT 5
Golden eagles don't kill adult bobcats . Birds never win at parity they only kill housecats and even then it is not easy. Perhaps you failed to read the SCIENTIFIC PAPER THAT SAYS OTHERWISE. Your opinion is not fact. Actually the "scientific paper" did not state the circumstances,the state the bobcat was in,the age of the bobcat, or sex. You must have made a ridiculous assumption that those 2 cases (btw in case you haven't noticed two is not a lot) where adult healthy males and you also must have assumed it was not by ambush. |
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Weasel
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Post by Weasel on May 10, 2014 10:37:26 GMT 5
The fact that domestic cats are commonly found as diet of golden and bald eagles, as well as that there are reports of hawks killing house cats, somehow makes me doubt that. Because it is evidence for just that. If you haven’t gotten it by now, I fear we can’t help you. Why do you keep bringing up the housecat argument? are domesticated,poorly equipped felines with lack of experience the only accounts you have of golden eagles killing felines? Go to www.loudounwildlife.org/blog/2010/01/red-tailed-hawk-killed-by-cat/
^cats also kill hawks so don't bring that up, I should also mention that the hawk that was "killed instantly" by the cat and was trained to hunt. In the last paragraph it even talks about bacteria in the cats mouth. "birds and other animals that survive an initial cat attack are still in danger; unless treated, infections from the toxic bacteria found in a cat’s mouth kill a significant number of animals.” "Banjo never had a chance. " So he predicted the cats bacteria would have still killed the hawk. |
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and it does not matter if the this fight actually is parity because the eagle is losing either way !