Leopard vs Reticulated Python

[Runic]

Sept 22, 2013 12:47:03 GMT 5 wiffle said:

When did honey badgers kill retics?
I'm sure we've all seen this video a couple hundred times:

Also, saying that near-decapitations "hold no merit" because such injuries are inflicted by people is ridiculous-are elephants actually not that durable because those 30+ rifle wounds were human-caused?

Thank you ! Saved me the trouble of making one long detailed rebuttal from a phone lol

[Supercommunist]

In regards to a pythons durability, it seems that there skull is their only achilles heel, as countless accounts have proved that their bodies are capable of withstanding horrendous injury.

Members with the conservation group Lion Guardians stumbled on a rare site in the Amboseli area of Kenya recently: six hyenas and a number of jackals were attacking and eating a 12-foot-long python.

On their blog at WildlifeDirect, Lion Guardians describe the attack: "[the hyenas and jackals] tore into its body from the back, and were taking their share while the upper part of the python was still alive! The Lion Guardian team was shocked and surprised at the same time, having never seen anything like it before."

news.mongabay.com/2010/0105-hance_hyena.html

A 38-year-old man is accused of stabbing a pet ball python 19 times and leaving a knife in the reptile as it slowly died in Pompano Beach, according to the Broward Sheriff's Office.

Roy Strickland, of Pompano Beach, is charged with causing cruel death, pain and suffering to an animal.

The python had been enclosed in its glass cage in a home along the 400 block of Southwest Second Street when Strickland allegedly reached in and slashed the animal 19 times, according to an arrest report.

Strickland allegedly said that the snake was evil when he stabbed the pet python of Jonathan Bernado-Robles about 12:30 p.m. Tuesday, the Sheriff's Office said.

Ball pythons are so-named because of their tendency to curl up when frightened or stressed.

"When the police got there, the snake was still alive with one of the knives still inside the snake," said Broward County Judge John "Jay" Hurley during Strickland's first appearance court hearing Wednesday.

A Pompano Beach animal control officer was called to the scene and the snake was euthanized with the owner's permission.

According to the police report read during Strickland's hearing, "the snake died a slow death as a result of the stabbing," Hurley said.

"The animal was not a threat to anyone; it was inside of a cage," Hurley said, "It does seem like the violence was gratuitous."

At the time of his arrest, Strickland had been out on pre-trial release for two other unrelated cases—a stalking and a robbery and battery on a person over 65 years of age, Hurley said.

The judge revoked the bonds on those cases and ordered Strickland held without bail.

articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-19/news/fl-animal-cruelty-python-stabbing-20121219_1_pet-python-pompano-man-snake

Keep in mind ball pythons are a small species of python.

A $2,500 reward is being offered for information leading to an arrest in connection with a 7-foot Burmese python that was found shot and stabbed in central Pennsylvania.

Officials in York County say the reptile was found abandoned near York Haven last week. It eventually had to be euthanized because its injuries were too severe.

www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/04/humane_society_offers_reward_f.html

UC Police Dept. found a 13-foot-2-inch, 85-pound Burmese python left for dead with numerous stab wounds on UCSBÂ’s West Campus last week.

UCPD Corporal Michael Romero discovered the python coiled up in a dirt parking lot on the Devereux Loop on April 24 at approximately 5:50 a.m. while making his final patrol of the night. A mutilated fluffy white rabbit carcass was also found nearby. He called for backup, assuming the python was dead, but when officers approached the animal to remove it, they saw its tail move and realized it was still alive. The officers contacted the Santa Barbara County Animal Control for assistance in moving the large snake to Valley Animal Hospital for treatment. The snake was suffering from severe hypothermia and was semi-comatose when it arrived. It had to be euthanized by hospital staff.

The reptile had been stabbed repeatedly by one or more people, UCPD detective Bill van Nieuwenhuize said. The unidentified snake butchers used a blunt object, a wide-body heavy knife and a smaller knife to attack the python.

“It’s a unique case. It’s the kind of case that I haven’t seen in the 14 years that I have been here,” van Nieuwenhuize said. “Somebody just stabbed and hacked this thing.”

Although UCPD does not know the exact time that the python was attacked, it has determined that it happened between 11:30 p.m. April 23 and 5:50 a.m. April 24. UCPD was dispatched to Devereux Loop in response to a different incident at 11 p.m. on April 23, and officers did not see the python at that time.

It is possible for reptiles to survive for long periods of time with injuries as severe as those inflicted on the python, said Dr. Eric Westheimer, the veterinarian at Valley Animal Hospital who treated it.

“Reptiles are absolutely amazing animals. They could probably survive several days with injuries like this,” he said.

Police speculate that the owner or owners of the python took it out to the parking lot in order to feed it, when something went wrong.

“[What I think is that] they tried to feed the rabbit to the snake,” van Nieuwenhuize said. “These are normally fairly docile snakes, this Burmese python, but when they haven’t been fed in a while and they smell prey, they’ll do a prey strike and if somebody tries to pull that animal or tries to take it away from [the python], it becomes very aggressive.”

Van Nieuwenhuize further speculated that the python, which would have been capable of killing an adult man, bit at least one person.

“There are a number of pry marks on the mouth to indicate it has been locked onto something and they used a tool to pry it loose,” he said. “[The stab wounds are] just so indicative of a really tremendous struggle that ensued.”

Police believe the snake was living with a new owner, who may have acquired it in the last 9 months, and that the snake showed signs that it was not well cared for prior to the stabbing. It had the early stages of belly scale rot, a disease caused when a snakeÂ’s cage is too moist or improperly cleaned.

Van Nieuwenhuize said UCPD is not treating his case as a criminal investigation, and he was more concerned with the public health issues because the python was infected with cryptosporidiosis, a disease spread through ingestion of the stool of an infected animal. Symptoms include diarrhea, stomach cramps and a slight fever.

“We really rather would have had somebody call us and said, ‘Man, we just had something really bad happen’ … that would have made it the best of all possible worlds,” van Nieuwenhuize said. “We could have called everybody we needed to call to take care of it and be done with it, but they just panicked and ran.”

A Reptile Warehouse, a local pet store specializing in reptiles, received a Burmese python from the Humane Society about two months ago. Bryan Szal, the owner of the store, said he remembers selling the python he received from the Humane Society to a person living in Isla Vista, but does not know if that python is the same one that was found by UCPD.

He said the animals take a lot more care than many people realize and that he takes extra precautions so that prospective buyers know how much care is needed.

“I don’t sell animals like that to the impulsive buyer,” Szal said.

dailynexus.com/2003-05-01/13-foot-python-hacked-stabbed-to-death/

[221extra]

Sept 22, 2013 12:47:03 GMT 5 wiffle said:

When did honey badgers kill retics?

They've killed African Rock Pythons, which aren't that much smaller than Reticulated Pythons & are considered highly aggressive. Maybe, they've done to the same with the Reticulated Python whom they share some range with in India.

Sept 22, 2013 12:47:03 GMT 5 wiffle said:

Also, saying that near-decapitations "hold no merit"

Please don't quote me out of context as I've said those incidents hold no merit in the wild. As those accounts prove that. 

Sept 22, 2013 12:47:03 GMT 5 wiffle said:

because such injuries are inflicted by people is ridiculous-are elephants actually not that durable because those 30+ rifle wounds were human-caused?

Now that's ridiculous, you're retort is based off a strawman, as I've never said that Pythons weren't durable because they've survived some horrific wounds from human caused weaponry, I've said they've shown to be completely irrelevant in the wild & you've offered nothing to counter that. 

[Runic]

Doesn't really matter if the account happened in the wild or not. Near decapitation is still near decapitation. Though I was addressing vodmeister on that part. Either way whether and account is valid or not is very thinly determined.

[Runic]

Sept 22, 2013 11:25:27 GMT 5 221extra said:

How durable are these Snakes? They survive "stabbings" & "blunt trauma", yet they succumbed to much smaller Honey Badgers & have died via a skull bite from a Leopardess. Point being; these captive incidents obviously hold no merit in the wild.

Would you still back that statement if you say hyena are durable because they survived lion attacks (as you have before during our old hyena v wolf rivalry) yet i reply they get killed by animal smaller than lions (eg other hyena) on a daily basis? Revolving around the same general (notice the keyword general) concept of logic, hyena surviving lion attacks should be irrelevant correct? Since a smaller hyena can kill another hyena but not a lion on occasion?

[221extra]

Sept 22, 2013 23:36:56 GMT 5 Runic said:

Doesn't really matter if the account happened in the wild or not.

My accounts have shown these are irrelevant in the wild, you & Wiffle haven't added anything to the contrary.

Sept 22, 2013 23:36:56 GMT 5 Runic said:

Near decapitation is still near decapitation. Though I was addressing vodmeister on that part. Either way whether and account is valid or not is very thinly determined.

Going by that logic, a Chicken is the most durable animal as one survived 18 months via full decapitation, no? 

[wiffle]

They've killed African Rock Pythons, which aren't that much smaller than Reticulated Pythons & are considered highly aggressive.

Most of them don't even put up a fight.
The largest reticulated python was about 25 feet; I've never heard of an ARP reaching that.

Please don't quote me out of context as I've said those incidents hold no merit in the wild. As those accounts prove that.

...what?! How is that supposed to be out of context when you practically say the same thing in the same sentence?

I've said they've shown to be completely irrelevant in the wild & you've offered nothing to counter that.

It is relevant in the wild, as the alligator video plainly shows. Snakes can plenty of punishment before dying. Of course that's not going to help if it sits there letting itself get killed, just as an elephant's durability will not come in handy if it stays still and lets someone walk up and stab it in the brain.

Going by that logic, a Chicken is the most durable animal as one survived 18 months via full decapitation, no?

The ax missed the jugular, carotid, and brain stem, hence why Mike survived. I doubt the same frequently occurs to a snake.
Furthermore, these results could not be duplicated by people who were actively trying to get a living decapitated chicken, whereas attempts to kill snakes by decapitation frequently fail.

[221extra]

Sept 22, 2013 23:38:08 GMT 5 Runic said:

Sept 22, 2013 11:25:27 GMT 5 221extra said:

How durable are these Snakes? They survive "stabbings" & "blunt trauma", yet they succumbed to much smaller Honey Badgers & have died via a skull bite from a Leopardess. Point being; these captive incidents obviously hold no merit in the wild.

Would you still back that statement if you say hyena are durable because they survived lion attacks (as you have before during our old hyena v wolf rivalry) yet i reply they get killed by animal smaller than lions (eg other hyena) on a daily basis? Revolving around the same general (notice the keyword general) concept of logic, hyena surviving lion attacks should be irrelevant correct? Since a smaller hyena can kill another hyena but not a lion on occasion?

Your comparison is so irrelevant it's not even funny, yes Hyenas have on quite a number of occasions survived Lion attacks, tho dying in intraspecific conflict which usually involves multiple Hyenas has no shame. Also Hyenas don't get overwhelmed by smaller-much (in regards to the Honey badger) like Pythons have. So I don't get the point you're trying to make?

[Runic]

Sept 22, 2013 23:43:26 GMT 5 221extra said:

Sept 22, 2013 23:36:56 GMT 5 Runic said:

Doesn't really matter if the account happened in the wild or not.

My accounts have shown these are irrelevant in the wild, you & Wiffle haven't added anything to the contrary.

Sept 22, 2013 23:36:56 GMT 5 Runic said:

Near decapitation is still near decapitation. Though I was addressing vodmeister on that part. Either way whether and account is valid or not is very thinly determined.

Going by that logic, a Chicken is the most durable animal as one survived 18 months via full decapitation, no? 

This is exactly what I was trying to explain on CF! You perfectly proved my point! Judging durability is basically a waste of time. A human survived a shotgun blast to the face. Now what if I took that same shotgun round and blasted the largest leopard on earth point blank in the face like that man? (I have proof if you dont believe me) I guess he's more durable than a leopard that got killed by getting its tongue ripped out by an old man correct? No matter how you try and turn it near dacapitation is and will always be a extremely horrendous wound.

Tho for the record, the leopard would kill the snake in a fight. I'm only addressing the durable issue.

[Runic]

Sept 23, 2013 0:03:30 GMT 5 221extra said:

Sept 22, 2013 23:38:08 GMT 5 Runic said:

Would you still back that statement if you say hyena are durable because they survived lion attacks (as you have before during our old hyena v wolf rivalry) yet i reply they get killed by animal smaller than lions (eg other hyena) on a daily basis? Revolving around the same general (notice the keyword general) concept of logic, hyena surviving lion attacks should be irrelevant correct? Since a smaller hyena can kill another hyena but not a lion on occasion?

Your comparison is so irrelevant it's not even funny, yes Hyenas have on quite a number of occasions survived Lion attacks, tho dying in intraspecific conflict which usually involves multiple Hyenas has no shame. Also Hyenas don't get overwhelmed by smaller-much (in regards to the Honey badger) like Pythons have. So I don't get the point you're trying to make?

And python have survived being horribly stabbed and bitten by alligators on numerous occassions. Why are you acknowledging the frequency of one but not the other?

Its not irrelevant at all. It's proving there's some favortism and flawed logical thinking floating around here. A hyena can kill a hyena one on one, a lion can kill multiple hyena by itself. However it's generally said hyena are durable because lions have failed to kill them on occasions. Now we know how big a lion is compared to hyena correct? So we will assume the lion represents a man with a knife stabbing the object & the other hyena is synonymous with a honey badger. So therefore lets say the lion (the man stabbing / python analogy) fails to kill one hyena one day, then tomorrow that same hyena gets killed by another smaller than lion hyena. Judging by the logical concept you are using here, the hyena was killed by an animal significantly smaller and less lethal than a lion (the python getting ambushed and killed at night when its ectothermic body made it pratically defenseless from the badger) , so therefore the hyena surviving the lion (the man stabbing the object) attack holds no merit since it's documented they get killed by animal smaller and less formidable than lions (the honey badger / python analogy) correct? That is basically what you are saying with python surviving stab wounds yet getting killed by badger (all though albeit tweaked) however when I address that you resort to implying hyena are only killed by other hyena in groups as this states from your post, paraphrasing by me below.
"Tho dying by MULTIPLE hyena holds no shame".

^ you just implied single hyena can't be killed by single hyena. The keyword you put was "multiple."

If however of course you can't understand my point (you wouldn't be the first lol) I can of course simplify it even more?

[221extra]

I'm sorry for a late response as I've been mostly busy this week.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

Sept 23, 2013 0:03:30 GMT 5 221extra said:

Your comparison is so irrelevant it's not even funny, yes Hyenas have on quite a number of occasions survived Lion attacks, tho dying in intraspecific conflict which usually involves multiple Hyenas has no shame. Also Hyenas don't get overwhelmed by smaller-much (in regards to the Honey badger) like Pythons have. So I don't get the point you're trying to make?

And python have survived being horribly stabbed

I've acknowledged that Pythons have survived stabbings, I've simply stated they have little to no relevance in the wild & so far you've just rambled on, adding nothing the contrary.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

and bitten by alligators on numerous occassions. Why are you acknowledging the frequency of one but not the other?

It's impressive as Gator's have a high bite force, tho has survived skull bites from Gators as well:


Bandog, a while back made a damn good point in regards to Crocodilian bites vs Cat bites:

A leopards teeth are designed to puncture, a crocodiles are designed to hold. Remember that video of the crocodile biting down on that mans head? He wouldn't have been so lucky if it was a leopard. Bite force isn't everything.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

Its not irrelevant at all.

Prove otherwise.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

It's proving there's some favortism

You mean just as you posted the very few accounts of Wolf supremacy in the Wolf vs Cougar thread & posted none of the Puma's multiple accounts of supremacy (and this:" Adults can range from fresh new adult females to sickly old males!")? Please don't blast anyone for "favoritism", as you're one of the most guilty of it!
flawed logical thinking floating around here.[/quote]
lol oxymoron.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

A hyena can kill a hyena one on one,

Never stated or implied that they can't, tho accounts seem to be rare.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

a lion can kill multiple hyena by itself.

Any accounts of that occurring? I know it's possible, but the accounts or lack thereof really say something.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

However it's generally said hyena are durable because lions have failed to kill them on occasions.

It's happened more frequently than just "occasions".

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

Now we know how big a lion is compared to hyena correct?

The size difference is quite large, example:
East African (Serengeti) Lions average 174.9kgs (385lbs) for males while Lioness average 115.6kgs (263lbs) (Sunquist & Sunquist 2002) vs

In the Serengeti, the adult female hyenas weighed from 98 lbs. - 141 lbs., averaging 122 lbs. Males weighed from 89 lbs. - 121 lbs., averaging 98 lbs.

(Kruk 1972)
Quite impressive on the Hyena's part!

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

So we will assume the lion represents a man with a knife stabbing the object & the other hyena is synonymous with a honey badger.

Why? Lions are very powerful creatures who attack with quite the explosive force & would put any man to shame. Tho the Honey Badger & Spotted Hyena isn't quite as far fetched, both have shown quite the durability even when against much larger Lions!

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

So therefore lets say the lion (the man stabbing / python analogy) fails to kill one hyena one day, then tomorrow that same hyena gets killed by another smaller than lion hyena.Judging by the logical concept you are using here, the hyena was killed by an animal significantly smaller and less lethal than a lion

Except, it hasn't just been one day; it's been many survivals on the part of the Hyena withstanding a Lion attack. And the size difference between the Honey Badger killing a large Python in one case was "similar" to a male Lion killing a "big" Black Rhino bull.
blog.africageographic.com/safari-blog/bush/honey-badger-kills-python/

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

(the python getting ambushed and killed at night when its ectothermic body made it pratically defenseless from the badger)

How do you know the Python was ambushed? And aren't African Rock Pythons nocturnal?

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

, so therefore the hyena surviving the lion (the man stabbing the object) attack holds no merit since it's documented they get killed by animal smaller and less formidable than lions (the honey badger / python analogy) correct?

Incorrect. This really isn't worthy of explanation.

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

That is basically what you are saying with python surviving stab wounds yet getting killed by badger (all though albeit tweaked)

How is "tweaked"?

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

however when I address that you resort to implying hyena are only killed by other hyena in groups as this states from your post, paraphrasing by me below.
"Tho dying by MULTIPLE hyena holds no shame".


^ you just implied single hyena can't be killed by single hyena. The keyword you put was "multiple."

Your paraphrase isn't even similar to my statement:
"Tho dying in intraspecific conflict which usually involves multiple Hyenas has no shame."

I stated a fact, Hyena intraspecific as well as interspecific conflict usually involves multiple Hyenas , do you disagree? Are Spotted Hyenas not highly social animals who live in complex groups?

Sept 23, 2013 0:41:40 GMT 5 Runic said:

If however of course you can't understand my point (you wouldn't be the first lol) I can of course simplify it even more?

I can see you're still quite conceited? I have no idea why, your arguments still aren't very good.

Sept 22, 2013 23:48:07 GMT 5 wiffle said:

They've killed African Rock Pythons, which aren't that much smaller than Reticulated Pythons & are considered highly aggressive.

Most of them don't even put up a fight.

Do the Pythons being stabbed put up a fight?

Sept 22, 2013 23:48:07 GMT 5 wiffle said:

The largest reticulated python was about 25 feet; I've never heard of an ARP reaching that.

I never stated they were the same size, tho for clarification, out of a 1000 Reticulated Pythons measured: the largest was 21ft (Shine, R., Harlow, P. S., & Keogh, J. S. (1998). The influence of sex and body size on food habits of a giant tropical snake, Python reticulatus. Functional Ecology, 12(2), 248-258.) & the largest scientifically measured specimen was a shade under 23ft (Fredriksson, G. M. (2005). "Predation on Sun Bears by Reticulated Python in East Kalimantan, Indonesian Borneo". Raffles Bulletin of Zoology 53 (1): 165–168.) Wiki's ARP page shows they're not much smaller than Reticulated Pythons & Mark O'Shea even states that Rock Pythons alludes to them being more heavily built than Reticulated Pythons (possibly indicated by their similar or heavier weights even at a smaller length.)

Sept 22, 2013 23:48:07 GMT 5 wiffle said:

Please don't quote me out of context as I've said those incidents hold no merit in the wild. As those accounts prove that.

...what?! How is that supposed to be out of context when you practically say the same thing in the same sentence?

It's misleading.

Sept 22, 2013 23:48:07 GMT 5 wiffle said:

I've said they've shown to be completely irrelevant in the wild & you've offered nothing to counter that.

It is relevant in the wild, as the alligator video plainly shows. Snakes can plenty of punishment before dying. Of course that's not going to help if it sits there letting itself get killed, just as an elephant's durability will not come in handy if it stays still and lets someone walk up and stab it in the brain.

My response to Black Ice clarifies that.

Sept 22, 2013 23:48:07 GMT 5 wiffle said:

Going by that logic, a Chicken is the most durable animal as one survived 18 months via full decapitation, no?

The ax missed the jugular, carotid, and brain stem, hence why Mike survived. I doubt the same frequently occurs to a snake.
Furthermore, these results could not be duplicated by people who were actively trying to get a living decapitated chicken, whereas attempts to kill snakes by decapitation frequently fail.

Who's to say vitals weren't missed by the Humans in the cases of the Snakes & regardless my point still stands, if surviving decapitation means so much, than a Chicken is the most durable animal:

"Olsen's success resulted in a wave of copycat chicken beheading, but no other chicken lived for more than a day or two"

Apparently chickens survived decapitation for a whole day or 2!

[Supercommunist]

221 Extra, I would like to point out that cases where humans survive a bite on the head from a crocodile are extremely unusual and against the norm as crocodiles and alligators are known to crush the shells of turtles with utter ease. In fact saltwater crocodiles are known to bite through sea turtle shells.



6:41 You can see a chunk of the turtles shell missing from a likely crocodile attack.

7:10 Crocodile destroys a large portion of the dead sea turtles shell while feeding.

8:46 Clearer shot of the shells damage

Also on the relevancy of the python and knife examples, I would like to point out that in this thread I already quoted a vet claiming that he believed that pythons surving knife wounds was not all at suprising and in fact the norm.

[Runic]

I'm sorry for a late response as I've been mostly busy this week.

That's quite alright. I have been busy as well.

I've acknowledged that Pythons have survived stabbings, I've simply stated they have little to no relevance in the wild & so far you've just rambled on, adding nothing the contrary.

So me stabbing a wild python with a pocket knife would bring different results than stabbing a pet one? If I shoot a wild leopard with a shotgun and it makes a full recovery yet gets savaged and killed by a domestic dog does that make it different? I think you are confused with what I'm trying to explain to you. No surprise to be honest, rarely does anyone understand my point until I put it in baby terms, but then the fun is gone now isn't it?

It's impressive as Gator's have a high bite force, tho has survived skull bites from Gators as well:

And people have survived leopard attacks and even managed to kill them unarmed. By your logic A male human should easily kill a pitbull since a leopard is far more formidable?

A leopards teeth are designed to puncture, a crocodiles are designed to hold. Remember that video of the crocodile biting down on that mans head? He wouldn't have been so lucky if it was a leopard. Bite force isn't everything.

I'm sorry to burst Bandogs bubble but what he said is nonsense, in order to succesfully grip something you either have to A) have extreme flexion of the appendage to wrap around the item (example being a primate) or be, you must have something suited to puncture the item therefore allowing a solid grip without flexibility (example a crocodiles teeth are meant to puncture and grip therefore disabling prey escape). Bandog at first glance seems to know what he's talking about but i've seen extreme flawed logic in his thinking (A wolf cannot kill a clouded leopard due to lack of flexibility)

Prove otherwise.

All you must do is refer to my hyena lion comp.

You mean just as you posted the very few accounts of Wolf supremacy in the Wolf vs Cougar thread & posted none of the Puma's multiple accounts of supremacy (and this:" Adults can range from fresh new adult females to sickly old males!")? Please don't blast anyone for "favoritism", as you're one of the most guilty of it!
flawed logical thinking floating around here.

lol oxymoron. [/quote]*Facepalm* if you want to make a crack at wolf vs cougar, as you apparently missed this line in my post

"To avoid the accusation of favortism on my part, here are records of puma killing wolves."

^ please before you start false claiming what I say, at least address me about it on the proper thread. I could perfectly settle the whole "BI hates cats and loves wolves" thing im inferring you still believe I posses when in reality wolves don't even make my top 5, no top 10 favorite animals? And I never accused you of favoritism. I stated there was "obvious favortism floating around here." I may have been talking about vodmeister don't you think? What is it they say? Ignorance is bliss?

Never stated or implied that they can't, tho accounts seem to be rare.

but you did.

Tho dying by multiple hyena is nothing to be ashamed of.

Why not have just said it singularly?

Any accounts of that occurring? I know it's possible, but the accounts or lack thereof really say something

Specifically why I played it safe and said a lion can kill multiple hyena. I didn't say it will.

It's happened more frequently than just "occasions".

So has it with a python getting stabbed in the head. See what in the end your point revolves back to?

The size difference is quite large, example:
East African (Serengeti) Lions average 174.9kgs (385lbs) for males while Lioness average 115.6kgs (263lbs) (Sunquist & Sunquist 2002) vs

In the Serengeti, the adult female hyenas weighed from 98 lbs. - 141 lbs., averaging 122 lbs. Males weighed from 89 lbs. - 121 lbs., averaging 98 lbs.
(Kruk 1972)
Quite impressive on the Hyena's part!

But not impressive if that same hyena gets killed by another hyena correct? As I said, there's favortism floating around.

Why? Lions are very powerful creatures who attack with quite the explosive force & would put any man to shame.

Are you familiar with relative analogies by any means?

Tho the Honey Badger & Spotted Hyena isn't quite as far fetched, both have shown quite the durability even when against much larger Lions!

So have thin skinned humans and canids, yet we get cut by paper.

Except, it hasn't just been one day; it's been many survivals on the part of the Hyena withstanding a Lion attack

Species wise yes, individually speaking, doubt it, unless you have proof of a hyena surviving multiple lion attacks throughout its life? Normally when a lion kills a hyena intently the attack is swiff.

And the size difference between the Honey Badger killing a large Python in one case was "similar" to a male Lion killing a "big" Black Rhino bull.

Impressive.

blog.africageographic.com/safari-blog/bush/honey-badger-kills-python/

Do you know what an ectotherm is? Cause if you were familiar with the term I doubt you would keep posting that account after reading when it stated the kill happened at night or early morning when its cooler.

How do you know the Python was ambushed? And aren't African Rock Pythons nocturnal?

No they are diurnal.

Incorrect. This really isn't worthy of explanation.

Because you can't come up with one?

How is "tweaked"?

Because you are ignoring the severity of one account yet praising a different one.

Your paraphrase isn't even similar to my statement:
"Tho dying in intraspecific conflict which usually involves multiple Hyenas has no shame."

I apologize, I was slightly off. Still by throwing usually in there you are still implying it takes multiple hyena. Unlike wolves.

I stated a fact, Hyena intraspecific as well as interspecific conflict usually involves multiple Hyenas

So do wolves, but do you ever hear me hiding behind that fact when defending them? If you bring up the cougar thing, be warned I always refer to these fights in which everyone thinks a male puma walked right up to a male wolf and slaughtered it.

do you disagree? Are Spotted Hyenas not highly social animals who live in complex groups?

That's hardly an excuse. Wolves do live in groups as do lions yet wolves have a 60% mortality rate (which would probably be even higher if there was anything left of the bodies most of the time.) Wolves kill each other more than lions. I would tell you the point in me saying this but I don't want to falsely accuse something else about you until your rebuttal.

I can see you're still quite conceited? I have no idea why, your arguments still aren't very good.

It only seems that way to the people that can't grasp my point. Don't worry, you wouldn't be the first. Though to cut the crap, what DO you think my point is regarding this? I want to make sure you completely missed it before dropping the bomb.

[LeopJag]

Sept 28, 2013 22:33:26 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

221 Extra, I would like to point out that cases where humans survive a bite on the head from a crocodile are extremely unusual and against the norm as crocodiles and alligators are known to crush the shells of turtles with utter ease. In fact saltwater crocodiles are known to bite through sea turtle shells.

The rounded shape of the human skull i suppose makes it possible to withstand forces like this....have you ever tried to crush an egg with your hands?

[Deleted]

I say Python wins. The leopard, even if it pins down the python's body, the python can still move around with the rest of its long body. If the leopard bites down, it's game over though.