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Post by creature386 on Apr 3, 2014 1:34:07 GMT 5
Don't you mean vice versa?
What I meant is that the situation is the same as what we had before the "125% the length of the holotype" thing. I know that the upper end is invalid now.
I saw your edit, thanks!
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pckts
Junior Member
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Post by pckts on Apr 3, 2014 1:46:49 GMT 5
Here's Prehistoric Cat's/Megafelis Fatalis' Postosuchus vs Tiger size comparison, modified to have another Postosuchus specimen(TTU-P 9235) ~125% the dimensions of the holotype, as a red silhouette.  One thing's for sure, the big one will demolish that cat. I wouldn't bet on that either. Even the "big one" still would not be much heavier than the Tiger and would still be much less agile, cold blooded (prolonged fight would benefit the tiger), as well as far less capable of fighting from any position the way a flexible spine would allow the big cat to fight. If you watch Komodo Dragons fight or hunt, run, walk etc.... you can see just how stiff and robotic they are when compared to a cat. If a cat gets a hold of the back/spine/neck area the Postosuchus is most likely doomed. Lack of agility and fighting off their back as well as not having the grappling ability that a cat will have, this will lead to the cat having a vice grip on the neck and most likely wouldn't relinquish until the prey is immobilized. |
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blaze
Paleo-artist 
Posts: 766
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Post by blaze on Apr 3, 2014 1:47:40 GMT 5
creature386I didn't realize you had already responded haha, sorry.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 3, 2014 1:51:46 GMT 5
One thing's for sure, the big one will demolish that cat. I wouldn't bet on that either. Even the "big one" still would not be much heavier than the Tiger and would still be much less agile, cold blooded (prolonged fight would benefit the tiger), as well as far less capable of fighting from any position the way a flexible spine would allow the big cat to fight. If you watch Komodo Dragons fight or hunt, run, walk etc.... you can see just how stiff and robotic they are when compared to a cat. If a cat gets a hold of the back/spine/neck area the Postosuchus is most likely doomed. Lack of agility and fighting off their back as well as not having the grappling ability that a cat will have, this will lead to the cat having a vice grip on the neck and most likely wouldn't relinquish until the prey is immobilized. Except this isn't a modern reptile. This is a highly active predator with an erect stance (just like the tiger), allowing it to move much quicker. |
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blaze
Paleo-artist
Posts: 766
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Post by blaze on Apr 3, 2014 2:12:46 GMT 5
That is true, the most common mistake people make when comparing mammals with "reptiles" is assuming they are equivalent, truth is, "reptile" is a much broader term encompassing comparatively much more distantly related groups of animals than those under the name mammals, the evidence is mounting that basal archosaurs were endothermic (Seymour et al. 2004) with the condition seen in modern crocs being but a reversal of their ancestral condition as an adaptation to their niche as aquatic ambush predators.
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pckts
Junior Member
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Post by pckts on Apr 3, 2014 2:19:52 GMT 5
I wouldn't bet on that either. Even the "big one" still would not be much heavier than the Tiger and would still be much less agile, cold blooded (prolonged fight would benefit the tiger), as well as far less capable of fighting from any position the way a flexible spine would allow the big cat to fight. If you watch Komodo Dragons fight or hunt, run, walk etc.... you can see just how stiff and robotic they are when compared to a cat. If a cat gets a hold of the back/spine/neck area the Postosuchus is most likely doomed. Lack of agility and fighting off their back as well as not having the grappling ability that a cat will have, this will lead to the cat having a vice grip on the neck and most likely wouldn't relinquish until the prey is immobilized. Except this isn't a modern reptile. This is a highly active predator with an erect stance (just like the tiger), allowing it to move much quicker. We have no reason to believe this animal would be any more agile than a Komodo dragon. And even if you want to compare a quicker reptile, such as a monitor, they still are much more robotic and less agile compared to africas wild cats i.e. Servals, caracals, feral cats, etc.... NTM the fact that its fore limbs are so small, there is no way this animal would be nearly as fast. 4 legs is always faster than 2. Cold blood is the same for all reptiles, they need to soak the sun in, energize, then hunt. They are also slower to regain energy compared to a warm blooded mammal. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 3, 2014 2:38:29 GMT 5
Except this isn't a modern reptile. This is a highly active predator with an erect stance (just like the tiger), allowing it to move much quicker. We have no reason to believe this animal would be any more agile than a Komodo dragon. And even if you want to compare a quicker reptile, such as a monitor, they still are much more robotic and less agile compared to africas wild cats i.e. Servals, caracals, feral cats, etc.... NTM the fact that its fore limbs are so small, there is no way this animal would be nearly as fast. 4 legs is always faster than 2. Cold blood is the same for all reptiles, they need to soak the sun in, energize, then hunt. They are also slower to regain energy compared to a warm blooded mammal. Nor is there reason to believe it was just as slow. The two animals are completely unalike other than being reptiles. Probably not as agile as the tiger, but certainly not like modern reptiles. With ectothermy, this animal wasn't ectothermic. The post above yours clears this up. |
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pckts
Junior Member
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Post by pckts on Apr 3, 2014 2:53:28 GMT 5
We have no reason to believe this animal would be any more agile than a Komodo dragon. And even if you want to compare a quicker reptile, such as a monitor, they still are much more robotic and less agile compared to africas wild cats i.e. Servals, caracals, feral cats, etc.... NTM the fact that its fore limbs are so small, there is no way this animal would be nearly as fast. 4 legs is always faster than 2. Cold blood is the same for all reptiles, they need to soak the sun in, energize, then hunt. They are also slower to regain energy compared to a warm blooded mammal. Nor is there reason to believe it was just as slow. The two animals are completely unalike other than being reptiles. Probably not as agile as the tiger, but certainly not like modern reptiles. With ectothermy, this animal wasn't ectothermic. The post above yours clears this up. There is actual evidence to suggest what the movement of this reptile would look like. It is easy to say "this one specific reptile is different" but that really is not the case. We have tons of evidence that proves that cold blooded animals are slower in movement and recovery. |
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pckts
Junior Member
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Post by pckts on Apr 3, 2014 2:58:32 GMT 5
There still is no real proof that this animal was not ectothermic, correct?
But even if they are not, I would still favor the tiger because of the other advantages mentioned. It is impossible to really know for sure, so I use our real life dinosaurs as reference.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 3, 2014 2:58:55 GMT 5
Nor is there reason to believe it was just as slow. The two animals are completely unalike other than being reptiles. Probably not as agile as the tiger, but certainly not like modern reptiles. With ectothermy, this animal wasn't ectothermic. The post above yours clears this up. There is actual evidence to suggest what the movement of this reptile would look like. It is easy to say "this one specific reptile is different" but that really is not the case. We have tons of evidence that proves that cold blooded animals are slower in movement and recovery. But again, Postosuchus was not cold blooded. I want to see this supposed evidence that suggests Postosuchus would move like modern reptiles. I am finding this very hard to believe. To your other post, blaze's last post here clears the evidence for endothermy up. Evidence points to endothermy. |
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Apr 3, 2014 3:16:49 GMT 5
Where is the actual study that proves that basal archosaurs were endothermic? I have no trouble believing this, but can I have an actual source?
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blaze
Paleo-artist
Posts: 766
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Post by blaze on Apr 3, 2014 3:22:17 GMT 5
Keep in mind I didn't say proves, I said that the evidence leans in that direction. Link (PDF) |
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Apr 3, 2014 3:23:43 GMT 5
It's having trouble opening. Oh well, I'll try later.
It's not the link that is defective, just probably my connection
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 3, 2014 4:14:46 GMT 5
It works for me.
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pckts
Junior Member
Posts: 158
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Post by pckts on Apr 3, 2014 4:42:33 GMT 5
There is actual evidence to suggest what the movement of this reptile would look like. It is easy to say "this one specific reptile is different" but that really is not the case. We have tons of evidence that proves that cold blooded animals are slower in movement and recovery. But again, Postosuchus was not cold blooded. I want to see this supposed evidence that suggests Postosuchus would move like modern reptiles. I am finding this very hard to believe. To your other post, blaze's last post here clears the evidence for endothermy up. Evidence points to endothermy. Why would you find it hard to believe that a distant relative of modern reptiles would move differently? It would be far more likely that this reptile moves more like a croc or lizard than anything else. If anything the smaller forelimbs is a dead give away that this animal would most likely be unable to survive today. It would be unable to catch prey needed to sustain it, most likely. Even the komodo dragon must use its bacteria to take down prey, crocs use the element of surprise from the water. I just don't see a practical place for this predator in todays world. Obviously I could be wrong, but I definitely would be astonished if this animal could maintain a pace fast enough to catch any mid sized mammal. Maybe if it adapted to the environment, but how could this reptile even stalk on land. It would have its hind section so high off the ground if it lowers its head in a ambush poster. Getting a little off topic, but its interesting to think about. |
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