Saltwater Crocodile vs Great White Shark

[rock]

Feb 2, 2019 22:22:12 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Excellent classic! I'd favor the shark, as it seems to have the deadlier bite and can do more damage to the croc with it tan vice versa.

the saltwater crocodile has a much stronger bite than a great white shark , although i do favor the shark here if its in deep water and the croc if in shallow water

[dinosauria101]

Key word: deadlier.
I'm still open to a change of opinion, but apparently slicing bite>crushing bite


EDIT: no, not anymore. These animals have equally deadly bites.

[elosha11]

I went on and on in a debate with a huge fan of crocs on carnivora named benko2015 (and to a lesser extent another poster named the Roc). Creature386 was kind enough to post my WoA comments on carnivora and then I'd respond to benko2015's responnses. You can see a bunch of the debate in the last few pages of this thread. It's also probably all still preserved in full on carnivora's archived site.

In any event, my main points as to this argument is (1) great whites are simply too large at adult size for the croc to easily bite. Men can easily straddle and stand over max size crocs like Lulong in their very middle. But great whites are far more robust, at least doubling the weight of croc at normal adult size ranges. It's going to be far harder for a croc to score a critical bite on the shark than vice versa. (2) Great whites are going to be overall more maneuverable and better swimmers in the ocean (only place where the conflict could occur) than the croc.

Don't really need to rehash everything previously said, I'd encourage anyone interested to read the earlier pages for much more info on this.

[dinosauria101]

I agree with you elosha11.
Here's a size comparison from the Carnivora thread:

And here's the link to the thread for better reference:  
carnivora.net/showthread.php?tid=28&page=2

One last thing: I take back what I said on there about favoring the croc

[rock]

as you can see they are roughly equal in size , so i say who ever gets the first blow will win , but i am leaning more twords to crocodile because of how sturdy they are , and how strong their jaws are . however i still think the shark has a great chance of winning this . but again it depends how deep the water is , in shallow ocean water , i say the croc would win , in deep ocean water i say the shark wins .

[dinosauria101]

No, the great white has the size advantage. It's also more maneuverable, has a deadlier bite, and does not have to breathe air.

[rock]

Apr 23, 2019 21:05:12 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

No, the great white has the size advantage. It's also more maneuverable, has a deadlier bite, and does not have to breathe air.

well they should be around the same size as proof of the picture i showed up their . it not having to breath air is only relevant in deep water , not in shallow water where the croc would not need to really come up for air . 

[elosha11]

^Rock, sorry, but as I explained to benko2015 earlier in this thread, that artistic size comparison is quite inaccurate. Here's the real thing, from a post of mine earlier in this thread.

First, I'm going to respond to a size comparison picture posted by Vodmeister on carnivora in post 605, in which he states:

"Grazier"

The problem here becomes whether a crocodile can really hurt a gigantic gws or take control of it when its so big and powerful. I dunno, I'd like to say yes but have my doubts. Conversely IF a gw does get to put a proper bite on a croc we know it has sharp enough sawing teeth to take a life threatening piece out of it.

"Vodmeister" If the crocodile can get a hold of the shark with its jaws, it will do some serious damage. That much I am convinced of. One good bite will definitely deter the shark away, and perhaps leave permanent damage.

I've seen that size comparison a lot, and while it's not a horrible depiction of the overall body shape of adult specimens, it significantly underestimates the size difference/bulk between these animals, at least for very large specimens. The largest great whites are well over twice the weight of Lulong, the largest recorded saltwater croc in history, at 6.17 meters/20'3" and weighing in at 1,075 kg (2,370 lb). Unlike the artist depicted size comparison above, real life pictures of the largest specimens shows a dramatic difference in bulk.

Here's a picture of Lolong soon after he was captured and measured. Obviously he exhibits incredible length and bulk for a crocodile, but note that three relatively short men in the middle and thickest part of Lolong's body can easily straddle him with both knees bent and and feet fully on the ground.



Compare Lolong to far heavier and yet shorter great whites and you can easily see that no human could come close to straddling the shark in the middle of their body. These two images are from Henry Mollet's elasmomollet.com great white page. The first shark was measured at 5.57 meters and 2120 kgs; the second was measured at 5.7 meters and estimated at 2500 kgs.





Or for a living specimen, compare images of Deep Blue, who's estimated at 6+ meters long. It's plain to see no human alive could come close to straddling her with feet touching the ground.





In sum, this demonstrates the great white has a far greater girth than the crocodile, because, of course, it's a far larger animal. If we are talking about large adult specimens, again this difference in robustness will make it very difficult for the croc to have any ability to get its formidable jaws around most of the shark's body, whereas the shark's deep and voluminous jaws would have little difficult inflicting a very damaging part on any part of croc's far thinner body.

[rock]

Apr 23, 2019 21:16:34 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

^Rock, sorry, but as I explained to benko2015 earlier in this thread, that artistic size comparison is quite inaccurate. Here's the real thing, from a post of mine earlier in this thread.

First, I'm going to respond to a size comparison picture posted by Vodmeister on carnivora in post 605, in which he states:





I've seen that size comparison a lot, and while it's not a horrible depiction of the overall body shape of adult specimens, it significantly underestimates the size difference/bulk between these animals, at least for very large specimens. The largest great whites are well over twice the weight of Lulong, the largest recorded saltwater croc in history, at 6.17 meters/20'3" and weighing in at 1,075 kg (2,370 lb). Unlike the artist depicted size comparison above, real life pictures of the largest specimens shows a dramatic difference in bulk.

Here's a picture of Lolong soon after he was captured and measured. Obviously he exhibits incredible length and bulk for a crocodile, but note that three relatively short men in the middle and thickest part of Lolong's body can easily straddle him with both knees bent and and feet fully on the ground.



Compare Lolong to far heavier and yet shorter great whites and you can easily see that no human could come close to straddling the shark in the middle of their body. These two images are from Henry Mollet's elasmomollet.com great white page. The first shark was measured at 5.57 meters and 2120 kgs; the second was measured at 5.7 meters and estimated at 2500 kgs.





Or for a living specimen, compare images of Deep Blue, who's estimated at 6+ meters long. It's plain to see no human alive could come close to straddling her with feet touching the ground.





In sum, this demonstrates the great white has a far greater girth than the crocodile, because, of course, it's a far larger animal. If we are talking about large adult specimens, again this difference in robustness will make it very difficult for the croc to have any ability to get its formidable jaws around most of the shark's body, whereas the shark's deep and voluminous jaws would have little difficult inflicting a very damaging part on any part of croc's far thinner body.

its not far larger , but it is a bit larger 

[elosha11]

2370 pounds v. 5000+ pounds is only a bit larger?

[rock]

Apr 23, 2019 21:32:56 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

2370 pounds v. 5000+ pounds is only a bit larger?

if we are talking about mass , the yes that is loads bigger . but if we are talking about size then no i do not think weight=size all the time , by that logic a sperm whale is bigger than a triceratops because he weighs more

[elosha11]

Apr 23, 2019 21:37:17 GMT 5 rock said:

Apr 23, 2019 21:32:56 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

2370 pounds v. 5000+ pounds is only a bit larger?

if we are talking about mass , the yes that is loads bigger . but if we are talking about size then no i do not think weight=size all the time , by that logic a sperm whale is bigger than a triceratops because he weighs more

What? A sperm whale is obviously "bigger" than a triceratops. Up to 18 meters, 50 to 60 tons. How is that even disputable? A GW will outweigh a saltie often by over 2 to 1 and equal lengths. It's far thicker and more robust in the body than the crocodile.

I wonder if you're equating "size" as visual appearance, rather than weight. And what I'm saying is if you put a large croc side by side with an equally long great white, you'd still see a noticeable "size" difference, as befits one animal that outweighs the other by at least 2 to 1.

[rock]

Apr 26, 2019 19:45:38 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

Apr 23, 2019 21:37:17 GMT 5 rock said:

if we are talking about mass , the yes that is loads bigger . but if we are talking about size then no i do not think weight=size all the time , by that logic a sperm whale is bigger than a triceratops because he weighs more

What? A sperm whale is obviously "bigger" than a triceratops. Up to 18 meters, 50 to 60 tons. How is that even disputable? A GW will outweigh a saltie often by over 2 to 1 and equal lengths. It's far thicker and more robust in the body than the crocodile.

I wonder if you're equating "size" as visual appearance, rather than weight. And what I'm saying is if you put a large croc side by side with an equally long great white, you'd still see a noticeable "size" difference, as befits one animal that outweighs the other by at least 2 to 1.

again you are mixing up weight with size , although the shark would be slighly larger here , i think you are underesitmating the crocodile here alot , i am not saying it would win , but i am saying that it can put up a good fight vs a great white shark .

[dinosauria101]

Apr 26, 2019 19:45:38 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

Apr 23, 2019 21:37:17 GMT 5 rock said:

if we are talking about mass , the yes that is loads bigger . but if we are talking about size then no i do not think weight=size all the time , by that logic a sperm whale is bigger than a triceratops because he weighs more

What? A sperm whale is obviously "bigger" than a triceratops. Up to 18 meters, 50 to 60 tons. How is that even disputable? A GW will outweigh a saltie often by over 2 to 1 and equal lengths. It's far thicker and more robust in the body than the crocodile.

I wonder if you're equating "size" as visual appearance, rather than weight. And what I'm saying is if you put a large croc side by side with an equally long great white, you'd still see a noticeable "size" difference, as befits one animal that outweighs the other by at least 2 to 1.

I second that, the biggest Triceratops is 10 meters and 12 tons. Nowhere close to the whale's size.

No offense rock, but by that logic, a Quetzalcoatlus would be bigger than a Cape buffalo (which actually dwarfs it 3 to 1)

[elosha11]

Apr 26, 2019 20:12:14 GMT 5 rock said:

Apr 26, 2019 19:45:38 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

What? A sperm whale is obviously "bigger" than a triceratops. Up to 18 meters, 50 to 60 tons. How is that even disputable? A GW will outweigh a saltie often by over 2 to 1 and equal lengths. It's far thicker and more robust in the body than the crocodile.

I wonder if you're equating "size" as visual appearance, rather than weight. And what I'm saying is if you put a large croc side by side with an equally long great white, you'd still see a noticeable "size" difference, as befits one animal that outweighs the other by at least 2 to 1.

again you are mixing up weight with size , although the shark would be slighly larger here , i think you are underesitmating the crocodile here alot , i am not saying it would win , but i am saying that it can put up a good fight vs a great white shark .

I don't think I'm underestimating the crocodile at all. This isn't a mismatch, a crocodile would be a dangerous foe indeed for the shark (and vice-versa). If you look back at my comments in this thread, you'll see I give the croc some advantages, such as a more flexible body. But there are obvious advantages for the shark, including a much greater weight and thickness at comparable lengths. How is pointing out that obvious advantage a sign of underestimating the crocodile? Like I said, the shark is not "slightly" larger than the croc, it is substantially larger. Better to rely on real pictures of actual specimens than that inaccurate artistic depiction you and others have posted.