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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 26, 2020 18:09:29 GMT 5
Antarctosaurus spp.  enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/65/Antarctosaurus_dinosaur.jpgOrder: Sauropoda Family: Titanosauria Length: 15 to 30-35 meters, depending on species Mass: 10 (source) to ~80-100 tonnes, depending on species Diet: Plants Age and Location: 85-80 million years ago, Mid to Late Cretaceous, Argentina and Brazil. Possibly Kazakhstan as well. Weapons: Pedal claws, tail slapping, spike osteoderms(?) Some species are among the largest dinosaurs ever to exist. Has been used as a wastebasket taxon for some other species. Torosaurus latus  upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Torosaurus_BW.jpgOrder: Ceratopsia Family: Chasmosauridae Length: 8-9 meters Mass: 8.6-11+ tonnes, based on relatives Diet: Plants, possibly an omnivore Age and Location: Late Cretaceous, 66 million years ago, Canada and United States Weapons: Horns, beak Very closely related to Triceratops and coexisted with it. Had one of the largest heads of any land animal, at up to 277 cm. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 26, 2020 19:40:06 GMT 5
I do not consider this-> to be a valid source for Torosaurus' supposedly potentially double digit tonnage body mass. Even if everything you said regarding Triceratops somehow actually holds up, I cannot confidently apply this to Torosaurus itself. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 26, 2020 19:43:02 GMT 5
They're fairly similar in terms of dimensions and build, aren't they?
Maybe I could just leave it at 11 plus tonnes.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 26, 2020 19:48:01 GMT 5
Unless it can be confidently demonstrated that any known specimen reached such a body mass, just don't claim it. I'm pretty sure they overlap in size (as far as being as heavy as an average bull African bush elephant), but it was never clear to me as to whether one had bigger known specimens than the other or not.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 26, 2020 19:59:37 GMT 5
Well, Greg Paul does give Torosaurus a length of 8 meters in the 2016 Field Guide, but I'm not sure what specimen he refers to and if it's the largest.
In any case, scaling down the Trikes from my post to that would fit into the range of 11+ tonnes. I think we can just leave it at that until we know more.
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Post by 6f5e4d on Jan 28, 2020 11:52:02 GMT 5
A fight very clearly won by Antarctosaurus, since as a sauropod, it has immense size as its main weapon alongside a great neck and tail.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 28, 2020 19:07:22 GMT 5
I think that the winner really depends on the species of Antarctosaurus used. Antarctosaurus brasiliensis is only about 10 tonnes, similar in size and possibly even SMALLER than Torosaurus. It would lose for sure due to much inferior weaponry. Antarctosaurus wichmannianus has a ~185 cm femur and is about 34 tonnes. I'd favor it over Torosaurus, but the ceratopsian isn't without a chance due to its better weapons. Antarctosaurus giganteus, meanwhile, is known from 235 and 250 cm femora and likely weighs around ~80-100 tonnes. It would easily win to every Torosaurus specimen, no ifs, ands, or buts. Overall, I'd vote for Antarctosaurus, but Torosaurus certainly has a chance to win too. This is interestingly similar to the Mamenchisaurus vs Triceratops thread! EDIT: here's a size comp with all 3 species. Antarctosaurus giganteus (MLP 26-316, 33.6 meters TL, 80+ tonnes, based on Futalognkosaurus), Antarctosaurus brasiliensis (GP-RD-2, 12 meters standing length, 5-10 tonnes?) and Antarctosaurus wichmannianus (FMNH 13019, 15.85 meters standing length, ~34 tonnes?), vs Torosaurus (MOR 981, 277 cm skull, probably 11+ tonnes). Credit goes to Paleo King for Futalognkosaurus, Felipe Elias for Antarctosaurus brasiliensis, John D' Angelo for Antarctosaurus wichmannianus, and GetAwayTrike for Torosaurus.  |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 28, 2020 21:24:22 GMT 5
Why is A. Giganteus even in this fight
All it needs to do is kick Torosaurus or step on it to win while Torosaurus tries goring its legs
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 28, 2020 21:26:16 GMT 5
It's Antarctosaurus spp. Not just Antarctosaurus giganteus.
Antarctosaurus brasiliensis evens things up a bit for Torosaurus; it's sort of the reverse if we used it.
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Post by kekistani on Jan 29, 2020 0:30:31 GMT 5
It's Antarctosaurus spp. Not just Antarctosaurus giganteus. Antarctosaurus brasiliensis evens things up a bit for Torosaurus; it's sort of the reverse if we used it. Yeah, but my question is WHY include A. Giganteus |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 29, 2020 0:38:02 GMT 5
It's Antarctosaurus spp. Not just Antarctosaurus giganteus. Antarctosaurus brasiliensis evens things up a bit for Torosaurus; it's sort of the reverse if we used it. Yeah, but my question is WHY include A. Giganteus Either all species or none, otherwise this matchup isn't really feasible. Antarctosaurus' taxonomy is kind of scrappy, to say the least; the remains associated with the holotype might not belong to the same species of dinosaur let alone the same individual. The other species are relatively poorly known as well, but including all species gives us the chance to discuss a wider range of possibilities. |
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