Largest sauropods

[dinosauria101]

Anyhow, here's some stuff on the French Monster. It definitely lives up to its name!
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/journal/Is-the-French-Monster-the-biggest-dinosaur-ever-674393795
paleoking.blogspot.com/2017/04/how-big-was-french-monster.html

[spartan]

Is that really a claw? This looks ridiculously big.

[dinosauria101]

Yep. That's a claw

[dinosauria101]

Daxiatitan could be on this list if the ~30 meters from bricksmashtv holds up. Scaling from Euhelopus gives ~70.3 tonnes, possibly more as the Euhelopus holotype is a subadult (more gracile) and Daxiatitan is a larger animal (likely more robust)

[dinosauria101]

AFAIK, the biggest plausible sauropod masses I've seen experts (Matt Wedel, Paleo King, Broly, etc) is around ~110 tonnes. Should be very similar.

[Infinity Blade]

Matt Wedel thinks the largest sauropods amassed ~110 tonnes? Can I get a link?

[dinosauria101]

That's why I said AFAIK; I think I may have seen it but I'm not too sure. If I do find it, I'll post it. Might have been in the largest sauropods thread.

Speaking of which, shouldn't we move this convo to there? The rules said to keep debates in this thread to a minimum

[Infinity Blade]

This isn't a debate, this is literally just me asking you a question.

But seeing as how this post of mine makes four, this conversation has been moved.

[dinosauria101]

Oop, found it.https://svpow.com/2009/10/13/how-big-were-the-biggest-sauropod-trackmakers/

Looks like the sauropods could've been a bit more than 110.

[dinosauria101]

There seem to be quite a few very large Asian dinos; on the same level as the big South American titanosaurs.
If we were to go by this GDI (link), Huanghetitan seems to be approaching the mass of Mamenchisaurus sinocanadorum (73.32 tonnes).
Daxiatitan (as was stated before) is ~71 tonnes scaling up from GSP's Euhelopus (if we go by Paleo King's estimate, which I think we can seeing as he's a pretty reliable sauropod source in general).
Fusuisaurus (if we go by Paleo King's skeletal, link), seems to be about 70 tonnes, and this is also in the ballpark of what scaling from relatives gets.
Xinghesaurus seems to be about 27 meters (link), and scaling from this ~12.5 meter Opisthocoelicaudia (link, link) gives ~93 tonnes. Now this is not to be taken as set in stone as Xinghesaurus is undescribed and the measurements are from pixels at a distance, but this animal seems fairly good sized overall.
And finally, from the same source as Xinghesaurus, the Lonely Planet titanosaur sacrum is from an animal ~25 meters based on relatives (scaling the Opistho to that gives over 70 tonnes), and may not even be fully grown.

So, there seems to be 8 really big Asian dinos so far - these guys, M. sinocanadorum, Ruyangosaurus, and Xinjiangtitan




      

[dinosauria101]

theropod

What is your current opinion on the size of the OMNH 1331 Apatosaurus and how did you get it? Paleosir (same person from DeviantArt) would like to know

[dinosauria101]

Sorry for continuously bumping this but there's just so much on these giant sauropods that ought to be posted.

Apparently Ruyangosaurus, even though it's 31 meters and 60 tonnes, is not full grown since the scapula and coracoid in the biggest specimen are unfused (source). Basically an Asian Dreadnoughtus.
There's also the 'Atlantosaurus immanis' (which is probably Apatosaurus ajax, AFAIK) known from a 243 cm femur. Scaling from CM 3018 gives ~50.2 tonnes for this animal, which is in the size range of the OMNH specimens for A. ajax, and since it's only a femur, pubis, and ischium it could well be immature like they are.
More than that. There's Yunmenglong (30 meters, link) and scaling from relatives like Euhelopus gives ~71 tonnes.
And Chuangjesaurus from the same source, at about 50 tonnes.

[dinosauria101]

Antarctosaurus giganteus size

Here are some size figures I have obtained for Antarctosaurus giganteus.
All these are scaled to 235 cm femur catalogued as MLP 26-316, as per Mazzetta (2004), as well as an uncatalogued 250 cm femur in the Museo de La Plata mentioned in Paul (1994) that likely belongs to Antarctosaurus giganteus.
It is very incomplete and is only known from large femora (von Huene 1929 and Paul 1994), therefore its size and proportions are mostly conjecture. As such, to get a rough idea of its size, I will scale several other titanosaurs to lengths of 235 and 250 cm femur. For base sauropods, I am using lognkosaurs (such as Ruyangosaurus, Futalognkosaurus, Argentinosaurus, and Patagotitan) and derived lithostrotians (such as Saltasaurus, Diamantinasaurus, Paludititan, Opisthocoelicaudia, and Dreadnoughtus) because they have ended up close to Antarctosaurus in several phylogenetic analyses (such as Porporat 2014, Lacovara 2014, Gonzales Riga 2016, Carballido 2017, Gonzales Riga 2018, and Gonzales Riga 2019). I am also using other antarctosaurids such as Bonitasaura, Antarctosaurus wichmannianus, and Antarctosaurus brasiliensis because they, as antarctosaurids, are very closely related to Antarctosaurus giganteus and would almost certainly be similar to it.

Mass estimations and scaling:

Based on a 10 meter, 5 tonne, 105 cm femur Bonitasaura (Apesteguia 2004, Paul 2010, Paul 2016 and GetAwayTrike), I get ~30 meters and ~63.5 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~31.91 meters and ~76.45 tonnes for the 250 cm femur (when factoring in the larger neck and tail that Antarctosaurus giganteus would have compared to Bonitasaura, due to its much larger size and niche as a high browser as opposed to being a low browser).

Based on a 33.5-37 meter, 80-90 tonne, 250 cm femur Argentinosaurus (randomdinos, Paleo King, Benson 2014), I get ~31.49-34.78 meters and ~66.46-74.75 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and about the same (as the Argentinosaurus) for the 250 cm femur.

Based on a 26 meter, 40+ tonne, 190 cm femur Futalognkosaurus (Calvo 2007, Calvo 2008, Benson 2014 and Paleo King), I get ~32.15 meters and ~76+ tonnes for the 235 cm femur and ~34.2 meters and ~91.5+ tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on an 18 meter, 15 tonne, 130 cm femur Antarctosaurus wichmannianus (Ornithopsis), I get ~32.53 meters and ~88 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~34.6 meter and ~105.9 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on a 15 meter, 10 tonne, 115 cm femur Antarctosaurus brasiliensis (Arid and Vizotto 1971, randomdinos), I get ~30.65 meters and ~85.33 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~32.6 meters and ~102.73 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on a 26 meter, 48.45 tonne, 190 cm femur Dreadnoughtus (Lacovara 2014, SVPOW and SpinoInWonderland, note that this is only one possible reconstruction for the animal and other estimates for it, such as Bates et al. 2015 will get differing results; I used the skeletal from Lacovara, which SVPOW GDI'd and got 57 cubic meters and thus 48.45 tonnes with the proper density of 0.85), I get ~32.15 meters and ~91.6 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~34.2 meters and ~110.2 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on an 8 meter, 2.5 tonne, 81.6 cm femur Saltasaurus (Paul 2010, Paul 2016), I get ~31 meters and ~67.5 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~32.97 meters and ~81.26 tonnes for the 250 cm femur (when factoring in the larger neck and tail that Antarctosaurus giganteus would have compared to Saltasaurus, due to its size and niche as a high browser as opposed to being a low browser).

Based on a 31 meter, 60 tonne, 207 cm femur Ruyangosaurus (Sassani and Bivens 2017, Paleo King), I get ~35.19 meters and ~87.8 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~37.43 meters and ~105.7 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on a 30-33 meter, 53-69 tonne, 236 cm femur Patagotitan (Carballido 2017, randomdinos), I get approximately the same for the 235 cm femur, and ~31.91-35.1 meters and ~63.81-83 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on a 16 meter, 15 tonne, 135 cm femur Diamantinasaurus (Hocknull 2009, Porporat 2014), I get ~27.85 meters and ~79.12 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~28.84 meters and ~95.25 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Based on an 8.73 meter, 1.92 tonne, 70 cm femur Paludititan (Megalotitan), I get ~29.3 meters and ~72.64 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~31.17 meters and ~87.46 tonnes for the 250 cm femur .

Based on a 15 meter, 10.5 tonne, 130 cm femur Opisthocoelicaudia (Seebacher 2001 and Scott Hartman), I get ~27.11 meters and ~62 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, and ~28.85 meters and ~74.67 tonnes for the 250 cm femur.

Resulting masses and lengths:

The estimated masses range from ~53 tonnes to ~91.6 tonnes for the 235 cm femur, with a mean of ~75.42 tonnes, and from ~63.81 to ~110.2 tonnes for the 250 cm femur, with a mean of ~90.8 tonnes - these are very comparable to the masses that several publications have obtained, such as van Valen 1969 (80 tonnes), Mazzetta 2004 (69 tonnes), and Paul 1994 (80-100 tonnes).
The estimated lengths range from ~27.11 to ~35.19 meters for the 235 cm femur with a mean of ~31 meters, and from ~28.85 to ~37.43 meters for the 250 cm femur, with a mean of ~33 meters - both are fairly similar to what some of the aforementioned publications such as van Valen 1969 (30 meters) and Paul 1994 (30-35 meters) have obtained.

I personally think something roughly in the size range of ~30-35 meters and ~80-100 tonnes (most similar to Paul, 1994) is most likely for both specimens since it's from very close relatives (such as Antarctosaurus wichmannianus and Antarctosaurus brasiliensis), but any of these are on the table.

References:

Mazzetta, G.V.; Christiansen, P.; Fariña, R.A. (2004). "Giants and Bizarres: Body Size of Some Southern South American Cretaceous Dinosaurs"
G.S. Paul, 1994, "Big sauropods — really, really big sauropods", The Dinosaur Report, The Dinosaur Society
von Huene, F. 1929. Los saurisquios y ornitisquios del Cretacéo Argentino. Anales del Museo de La Plata (series 3) 3: 1–196.
Lacovara, Kenneth J.; Ibiricu, L. M.; Lamanna, M. C.; Poole, J. C.; Schroeter, E. R.; Ullmann, P. V.; Voegele, K. K.; Boles, Z. M.; Egerton, V. M.; Harris, J. D.; Martínez, R. D.; Novas, F. E. (September 4, 2014). "A Gigantic, Exceptionally Complete Titanosaurian Sauropod Dinosaur from Southern Patagonia, Argentina"
González Riga, Bernardo J.; Lamanna, Matthew C.; Ortiz David, Leonardo D.; Calvo, Jorge O.; Coria, Juan P. (2016). "A gigantic new dinosaur from Argentina and the evolution of the sauropod hind foot"
Carballido, J.L.; Pol, D.; Otero, A.; Cerda, I.A.; Salgado, L.; Garrido, A.C.; Ramezani, J.; Cúneo, N.R.; Krause, J.M. (2017). "A new giant titanosaur sheds light on body mass evolution among sauropod dinosaurs"
Gonzalez Riga, B.J.; Mannion, P.D.; Poropat, S.F.; Ortiz David, L.; Coria, J.P. (2018). "Osteology of the Late Cretaceous Argentinean sauropod dinosaur Mendozasaurus neguyelap: implications for basal titanosaur relationships"
González Riga, Bernardo J.; Lamanna, Matthew C.; Otero, Alejandro; Ortiz David, Leonardo D.; Kellner, Alexander W. A.; Ibiricu, Lucio M. (2019). "An overview of the appendicular skeletal anatomy of South American titanosaurian sauropods, with definition of a newly recognized clade"
Apesteguía, S. 2004. Bonitasaura salgadoi gen. et sp. nov.: a beaked sauropod from the Late Cretaceous of Patagonia.
Paul, G.S. 2010. The Princeton field guide to dinosaurs. Princeton University Press, Princeton.
Paul, G.S. 2016. The Princeton field guide to dinosaurs. 2nd Ed.. Princeton University Press, Princeton.
www.deviantart.com/getawaytrike/art/La-Bonita-614216886
www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Argentinosaurus-huinculensis-schematic-709919163
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/art/Argentinosaurus-huinculensis-Mk-II-708506050
Benson, R. B. J.; Campione, N. S. E.; Carrano, M. T.; Mannion, P. D.; Sullivan, C.; Upchurch, P.; Evans, D. C. (2014). "Rates of Dinosaur Body Mass Evolution Indicate 170 Million Years of Sustained Ecological Innovation on the Avian Stem Lineage"
Calvo, J.O., Porfiri, J.D., González-Riga, B.J., and Kellner, A.W. (2007) "A new Cretaceous terrestrial ecosystem from Gondwana with the description of a new sauropod dinosaur"
Calvo, J.O.; Juárez Valieri, R.D. & Porfiri, J.D. 2008. Re-sizing giants: estimation of body length of Futalognkosaurus dukei and implications for giant titanosaurian sauropods."
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/art/Futalognkosaurus-dukei-Mk-IX-694212525
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/art/Futalognkosaurus-dukei-Mk-X-Calvo-edition-696697321
www.deviantart.com/ornithopsis/art/Antarctosaurus-wichmannianus-716495860
www.museocivico.rovereto.tn.it/UploadDocs/3325_Arid_Vizotto_1971.pdf
www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Sauropodomorphs-of-Brazil-692949806
svpow.com/
www.deviantart.com/spinoinwonderland/art/Dreadnoughtus-schrani-skeletal-reconstruction-515239568
Sassani N, Bivens G.T. (2017) The Chinese colossus: an evaluation of the phylogeny of Ruyangosaurus giganteus and its implications for titanosaur evolution
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/art/Ruyangosaurus-giganteus-Mk-II-712420775
www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Patagotitan-mayorum-skeletal-reconstruction-762150985
Hocknull, Scott A.; White, Matt A.; Tischler, Travis R.; Cook, Alex G.; Calleja, Naomi D.; Sloan, Trish; Elliott, David A. (2009). Sereno, Paul (ed.). "New Mid-Cretaceous (Latest Albian) Dinosaurs from Winton, Queensland, Australia"
Poropat, S.F.; Upchurch, P.; Mannion, P.D.; Hocknull, S.A.; Kear, B.P.; Sloan, T.; Sinapius, G.H.K.; Elliot, D.A. (2014). "Revision of the sauropod dinosaur Diamantinasaurus matildae Hocknull et al. 2009 from the mid-Cretaceous of Australia: Implications for Gondwanan titanosauriform dispersal"
www.deviantart.com/megalotitan/art/Paludititan-MK-III-745180274
Seebacher, F. 2001. A new method to calculate allometric length-mass relationships of dinosaurs. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 21
www.deviantart.com/scotthartman/art/Opisthocoelicaudia-750970320
van Valen, Leigh (1969-08-29). "What Was the Largest Dinosaur?"

[dinosauria101]

Here are some mass figures I have obtained for Notocolossus based on scaling from relatives. It's known from relatively scant remains, so its true size is hard to infer without relatives to fill in the gaps. All of these are scaled to a 176 cm humerus, as per Gonzales Riga (2016).

Based on a 30-37 meter, 53-69 tonne Patagotitan with a 185 cm humerus, I get ~28.54-35.19 meters and ~45.6-59.4 tonnes.
Based on a 26 meter, 48.45 tonne Dreadnoughtus with a 160 cm humerus, I get 28.6 meters and ~64.48 tonnes.
Based on a 31 meter, 60 tonne Ruyangosaurus with a 189 cm humerus, I get ~28.88 meters and ~48.53 tonnes.
Based on a 26 meter, 40+ tonne Futalognkosaurus with a 156 cm humerus, I get ~29.33 meters and ~57.44+ tonnes.
Based on a 10 meter, 5 tonne Bonitasaura with a ~77.77 cm humerus, I get ~29.32 meters and ~63.56 tonnes (when factoring in elongation of the neck and tail).
Based on an 8 meter, 2.5 tonne Saltasaurus with a 60.2 cm humerus, I get ~28 meters and ~65.6 tonnes (when factoring in elongation of the neck and tail).
Based on an 18 meter, 15 tonne Antarctosaurus wichmannianus with a ~104 cm humerus, I get ~30.46 meters and 72.69 tonnes.

Overall, this has a range of ~45.6-72.69 tonnes and a mean mass of about 60.63 tonnes, which is very close to the range of 45-76 tonnes and mean of 60.4 tonnes that the holotype was estimated to weigh via the circumference of the humerus in Gonzales Riga (2016). The estimated length, going by these, is 28 to ~35.19 meters with a mean of ~29.49 meters.

References:
González Riga, Bernardo J.; Lamanna, Matthew C.; Ortiz David, Leonardo D.; Calvo, Jorge O.; Coria, Juan P. (2016). "A gigantic new dinosaur from Argentina and the evolution of the sauropod hind foot"
Carballido, J.L.; Pol, D.; Otero, A.; Cerda, I.A.; Salgado, L.; Garrido, A.C.; Ramezani, J.; Cúneo, N.R.; Krause, J.M. (2017). "A new giant titanosaur sheds light on body mass evolution among sauropod dinosaurs"
www.deviantart.com/randomdinos/art/Patagotitan-mayorum-skeletal-reconstruction-762150985
journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001853
www.deviantart.com/paleo-king/art/Ruyangosaurus-giganteus-Mk-II-712420775
www.deviantart.com/ornithopsis/art/Antarctosaurus-wichmannianus-716495860
Paul, G.S. 2010. The Princeton field guide to dinosaurs. Princeton University Press, Princeton.
Paul, G.S. 2016. The Princeton field guide to dinosaurs. 2nd Ed.. Princeton University Press, Princeton.

[Infinity Blade]

New giant titanosaur remains from the Candeleros Formation (Otero et al., 2021).

As MOZ-Pv 1221 lacks humerus and femur, estimates of its body mass cannot be estimated using the current main methods (e.g., Campione and Evans, 2012, 2020; Benson et al., 2014; Bates et al., 2016; Campione, 2017; Otero et al. 2019), precluding direct body mass comparisons with other gigantic titanosaurs for which estimates have been made, both by volumetric and scaling methods, such as Dreadnoughtus and Patagotitan (Benson et al., 2014; Bates et al., 2015; Carballido et al., 2017; Campione and Evans, 2020). In comparison to giant titanosaurs, however, the recovered appendicular bones of MOZ-Pv 1221 are larger than any known titanosaur described to date. The maximum dorsoventral height at the proximal section of the scapula (130 cm) is 17% higher than in Patagotitan (Otero et al., 2020), 26% higher than in Dreadnoughtus (Ullmann and Lacovara, 2016), 130% higher than in Mendozasaurus (González Riga et al., 2018), and 94% higher than in Drusilasaura (Navarrete et al., 2011). The maximum proximodistal length of the pubis of MOZ-Pv 1221 is 166 cm, which is 10% longer than in Patagotitan, 18% longer than in Dreadnoughtus, and 21% longer than in Futalognkosaurus. At present there is no reliable information for comparison with other giants such as Puertasaurus and Argentinosaurus. So although it is not currently possible to estimate the body mass of MOZ-Pv 1221 (limb bones having been found but not excavated), it is clear that the titanosaur partially recovered from the Candeleros Formation can be considered one of the largest titanosaurs, probably of a body mass comparable to Patagotitan or Argentinosaurus or even larger.