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Post by Runic on Jun 2, 2013 7:36:15 GMT 5
As I know, the cartilaginous skeleton in large sharks display more flexibility and a comparable robustness. They are also very resistant to shocks. But bony or not, there would be...big damages. But not crushed like this. But I question the ability (the realism) of even a large croc to have a good grip on the head or cranial region of such a large great white. I would more fear for the shark's fins and ability to swim efficiently after a bite and death roll in this area, than for the head region of the shark. Also, Runic, given the structure of a shark mouth, I doubt any shark could break its teeth even if it wanted to do so. A shark biting at the force of a croc at 3tons of force which theropod implied would break its teeth and probably cave in its own head. It's skull would simply be unable to resist that kind of force. |
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Post by Runic on Jun 2, 2013 7:37:36 GMT 5
Black Ice: An average Great White Shark weighs as much as those monster Crocodiles like Gustave and Lolong. On average. Great White Sharks weighs 2,000 lbs. I did also say I now think at parity. It's 50/50 since you proved to me that Crocodile bites can be as deadly as a Shark's bite. I already told you at parity it was a monster croc against an average shark so why repeat back to me what I said? |
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Post by DinosaurMichael on Jun 2, 2013 7:38:42 GMT 5
Black Ice: An average Great White Shark weighs as much as those monster Crocodiles like Gustave and Lolong. On average. Great White Sharks weighs 2,000 lbs. I did also say I now think at parity. It's 50/50 since you proved to me that Crocodile bites can be as deadly as a Shark's bite. I already told you at parity it was a monster croc against an average shark so why repeat back to me what I said? Sorry thought it was something different you were talking about. My bad. |
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Post by Grey on Jun 2, 2013 7:53:23 GMT 5
As I know, the cartilaginous skeleton in large sharks display more flexibility and a comparable robustness. They are also very resistant to shocks. But bony or not, there would be...big damages. But not crushed like this. But I question the ability (the realism) of even a large croc to have a good grip on the head or cranial region of such a large great white. I would more fear for the shark's fins and ability to swim efficiently after a bite and death roll in this area, than for the head region of the shark. Also, Runic, given the structure of a shark mouth, I doubt any shark could break its teeth even if it wanted to do so. A shark biting at the force of a croc at 3tons of force which theropod implied would break its teeth and probably cave in its own head. It's skull would simply be unable to resist that kind of force. Unlikely regarding the skull. A great white can propel itself at high speeds against hard structure and foes. They have been known to damages and even sink some boats. Several bull sharks, much smaller than even an average great white, sunk a shrimpboat in 2007. No broken or crushed skulls in these cases. www.fieldandstream.com/pages/bull-shark-sinks-shrimp-boatwww.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=41015Agreed regarding the teeth though. But even less than in crocs, that's no big deal for sharks. And they often break their teeth after ramming a big prey... |
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Post by Runic on Jun 2, 2013 23:04:54 GMT 5
A shark biting at the force of a croc at 3tons of force which theropod implied would break its teeth and probably cave in its own head. It's skull would simply be unable to resist that kind of force. Unlikely regarding the skull. A great white can propel itself at high speeds against hard structure and foes. They have been known to damages and even sink some boats. Several bull sharks, much smaller than even an average great white, sunk a shrimpboat in 2007. No broken or crushed skulls in these cases. www.fieldandstream.com/pages/bull-shark-sinks-shrimp-boatwww.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=41015Agreed regarding the teeth though. But even less than in crocs, that's no big deal for sharks. And they often break their teeth after ramming a big prey... Taking external forces is not the same as taking internal forces. Example, humans can survive extreme trauma to the head on occasion from external forces, however give a human the bite force of a jaguar and he would shatter his jaw as his skull is unable to handle that kind of pressure exerted from its own jaws. There's a reason animals have bending strengths and stresses, if you exceed that limit, whatever tried to apply that force would simply be destroyed. A shark biting with the pressure of gustave would literally smash its skull right into its lower jaw as the stress resistant needed to withstand that force is simply not in shark anatomy. Crocodile snap their teeth on occasion just by SHUTTING their jaws, a shark has to ram something to break its teeth. You can see there is a huge gap in jaw pressure abilities, one a shark could simply not attain at the size of a great white. Crocodiles bite on T.rex levels, a great white hark doesn't even come close. |
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 2, 2013 23:24:38 GMT 5
At weight parity the Saltie would win, it's better armed, more durable, and has larger and stronger jaws.
However, at length parity I'd have to support the GWS, it would be much heavier and the more robust animals.
They're both two of my favorite aquatic animals.
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Post by theropod on Jun 2, 2013 23:32:43 GMT 5
Even tough a monstruos croc like lolong or gustave would be dangerous, I would definitely favour a large GWS. The croc would have difficulties biting it in most places, since it is 2-3 times the weight. It could imo potentially bite the skull, however the shark has more regions it can bite and is overally larger.
Their bites are both deadly, but function in completely different ways.
A monster croc would imo win against an average GWS, as it dimensionally dwarfs it. But against a large shark, I don't think any crocodile stands a chance.
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Post by theropod on Jun 2, 2013 23:35:44 GMT 5
Unlikely regarding the skull. A great white can propel itself at high speeds against hard structure and foes. They have been known to damages and even sink some boats. Several bull sharks, much smaller than even an average great white, sunk a shrimpboat in 2007. No broken or crushed skulls in these cases. www.fieldandstream.com/pages/bull-shark-sinks-shrimp-boatwww.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=41015Agreed regarding the teeth though. But even less than in crocs, that's no big deal for sharks. And they often break their teeth after ramming a big prey... Taking external forces is not the same as taking internal forces. Example, humans can survive extreme trauma to the head on occasion from external forces, however give a human the bite force of a jaguar and he would shatter his jaw as his skull is unable to handle that kind of pressure exerted from its own jaws. There's a reason animals have bending strengths and stresses, if you exceed that limit, whatever tried to apply that force would simply be destroyed. A shark biting with the pressure of gustave would literally smash its skull right into its lower jaw as the stress resistant needed to withstand that force is simply not in shark anatomy. Crocodile snap their teeth on occasion just by SHUTTING their jaws, a shark has to ram something to break its teeth. You can see there is a huge gap in jaw pressure abilities, one a shark could simply not attain at the size of a great white. Crocodiles bite on T.rex levels, a great white hark doesn't even come close. Hmm, there's no way a human could even generate such an internal force. Were do you think the jaw muscles could fit? There's no sufficient attachment, no space, nothing. Hence if you let a human excert such a bite force, you necessarily modify its anatomy, if you don't, it is no internally generated bite force. |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 3, 2013 0:43:35 GMT 5
Even tough a monstruos croc like lolong or gustave would be dangerous Gustave isn't a saltie. |
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Post by theropod on Jun 3, 2013 0:58:02 GMT 5
Even tough a monstruos croc like lolong or gustave would be dangerous Gustave isn't a saltie. I meant sizewise. That doesn't really make a big difference since large salties and nile crocs are almost exactly comparable. |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 3, 2013 1:23:35 GMT 5
O.K. than, but it is not quite certain if Gustave exists.
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Post by Grey on Jun 3, 2013 3:51:27 GMT 5
Taking external forces is not the same as taking internal forces. Example, humans can survive extreme trauma to the head on occasion from external forces, however give a human the bite force of a jaguar and he would shatter his jaw as his skull is unable to handle that kind of pressure exerted from its own jaws. There's a reason animals have bending strengths and stresses, if you exceed that limit, whatever tried to apply that force would simply be destroyed. A shark biting with the pressure of gustave would literally smash its skull right into its lower jaw as the stress resistant needed to withstand that force is simply not in shark anatomy. Crocodile snap their teeth on occasion just by SHUTTING their jaws, a shark has to ram something to break its teeth. You can see there is a huge gap in jaw pressure abilities, one a shark could simply not attain at the size of a great white. Crocodiles bite on T.rex levels, a great white hark doesn't even come close. The large crocs bite more powerfully than large sharks, there's no question to that. But the part about the skull crushed by the pressure of its own bite is frankly poor. There's no such thing like this. Skeletal structures are adapted to the bite and in the case of sharks, there skeleton displays a comparable strength to the bony skeletons but especially a far greater felxibility and a relative elasticity able to absorb huge forces. Great whites ram their preys at speed and force (taking into account the size) that crocs do not perform and their skulls are never wounded or broken. Also, I would advise you to look at the episode of Inside Nature's Giants about the great white. The muscles jaws are actually huge, but the jaws are not especially powerful because they are not firmly attached to the skull, evolutionnary traits of sharks. But there jaws are adapted to external or internal blows, no question on that. Now, the common average great white is certainly a dangerous foe for a large saltie, but : - at this size, the jaws, in size, volume potency and bite force are not too small compared to the huge weaponry of the 1 ton croc. - the level of agression of the croc would be too much for the great white at this size. However, the shark have still great chances if it manages to take the croc to the belly by below with high speed. But I normally give it to Lo Long... |
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Post by Supercommunist on Jun 4, 2013 8:51:21 GMT 5
Keep in mind the crocodile doesn't necessarily have to kill the shark outright to win the fight, the reptile can hypothetically prevent the shark from swimming and kill it through suffocation.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 4, 2013 9:38:28 GMT 5
Size comparison;  |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 4, 2013 22:07:29 GMT 5
the reptile can hypothetically prevent the shark from swimming and kill it through suffocation. Well, outright killing it sounds easier. |
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