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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:25:30 GMT 5
Boom discussion over. If he had read the profiles as I said he wouldn't be spouting that "hawks grapple better" nonsense. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:26:11 GMT 5
you can tell that there morphology doesnt allow for them to be nearly as proficient as mordern raptors in grasping that is if they even did grasp at all. |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:28:25 GMT 5
1St point - Understand I was not referring to their forelimbs in the RPR method. That should have been obvious, even then the forelimbs are used in stability flapping so technically they are still used. The point bof me mentioning that was because you said hawks grapple better than deinonychus, which is pure bs and you don't know what your talking about. (See deinonychus profile) 2nd point- at equal weights dromaeosaurs have far greater toe flexion, longer claws, and more developed hands for grappling even in rpr (see second post in velociraptor profile and 1st and last posts in deinonychus profile on grappling & rpr) once again, you don't seem to know what your talking about. 3rd point- birds compesated forelimbs grappling for something called POWERED FLIGHT, not for restraining prey. Once again you show you don't know what your talking about. 4th point- You want to test that theory by playing the account game? m.youtube.com/watch?v=buXqrUNK4cM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbuXqrUNK4cMm.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey1aVIS5JBY&feature=relatedm.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=dW7xC_9DKCkwww.wildlife-removal.com/images/snakeanimals.jpgEdit: A red tail hawk weighs 2lbs. It is EXTREMELY easy to tell the snake it killed in that video was bigger than it. Or did you just not know how big hawks are?? When a bird & snake clash the usual winner is the avian 1: Irrelevant as i already said I was referring to there ability to grapple with there feet 2: all of those feature are still inferior to the ability to grasp and I already said i was refering to rhe ability to grapple witj there feet. 3: birds can grasp thing thats how they compensate 4: your account game is utterly pointless as i already said successful predation is more common, therefore of course you would find more accounts my point was that accounts of failed predation that lead to the smaller snake immobilizating and killing (as long as people dont save the bird, which happens alot) the bird are not uncommon either. 5: you say it is extermely easy but do you have the faintest idea of what a 2lbs snake would look like? Lots of people think the nile monitor is the same size if not bigger in the famous honey badger owns monitor lizard video and yet thhere is no lizard in the whole continent that is as big as the honey badger. I know how big hawks are i have handled one and i have also handle snakes lots and lots of them can you say the same? Dont say you can tell its bigger when you have no idea how much a snake weighs at those demensions. A red tail hawk weighs two pounds. The snake that was killed looked to be a bull snake which weigh from 3lbs to 9lbs on extreme occasions. The snake was bigger and got killed. Your argument is invalid. Visual perception was not needed. Just snake identification. Unlike you and me we are not like lots of people, we actually know a great deal about animal rather than getting it from imagination. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:29:04 GMT 5
Dromaeosaurids actually too could have grasped with their feet:http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964 Boom discussion over. If he had read the profiles as I said he wouldn't be spouting that "hawks grapple better" nonsense. *better with there feet* and it isnt nonsense at all, if you cant see that your stupid. |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:30:24 GMT 5
Boom discussion over. If he had read the profiles as I said he wouldn't be spouting that "hawks grapple better" nonsense. *better with there feet* and it isnt nonsense at all, if you cant see that your stupid. Hawk - Foot grappler Deinonychus - Foot grappler. You said hawks are better grapplers point blank. You are incorrect. You seem to be the stupid one. Not me. Your information on birds is very limited it seems. You should stick to lizard. |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:31:53 GMT 5
Dromaeosaurids actually too could have grasped with their feet:http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964 you can tell that there morphology doesnt allow for them to be nearly as proficient as mordern raptors in grasping that is if they even did grasp at all. LMFAO no where in any paper does it state hawks grapple better with the feet than their ancestor. If they did it would be a major point in their study..... DUH ! |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:39:02 GMT 5
I see this happening,  It pinning the snake to the ground and eating it alive. Hawks who have superior grappling ability compared to deinonychus and regularly hunt much smaller snakes can still get themselves killed ecen with ambush advantage.  Trying to pin the snake down and eat it alive only gives it more than enough time to wrap up the raptor and kill it. I would go with a different stategy. ^ tell me where the specification "with their feet" is? All I see is they are superior grapplers. You said you specified, yet.... where? |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:39:03 GMT 5
1: Irrelevant as i already said I was referring to there ability to grapple with there feet 2: all of those feature are still inferior to the ability to grasp and I already said i was refering to rhe ability to grapple witj there feet. 3: birds can grasp thing thats how they compensate 4: your account game is utterly pointless as i already said successful predation is more common, therefore of course you would find more accounts my point was that accounts of failed predation that lead to the smaller snake immobilizating and killing (as long as people dont save the bird, which happens alot) the bird are not uncommon either. 5: you say it is extermely easy but do you have the faintest idea of what a 2lbs snake would look like? Lots of people think the nile monitor is the same size if not bigger in the famous honey badger owns monitor lizard video and yet thhere is no lizard in the whole continent that is as big as the honey badger. I know how big hawks are i have handled one and i have also handle snakes lots and lots of them can you say the same? Dont say you can tell its bigger when you have no idea how much a snake weighs at those demensions. A red tail hawk weighs two pounds. The snake that was killed looked to be a bull snake which weigh from 3lbs to 9lbs on extreme occasions. The snake was bigger and got killed. Your argument is invalid. Visual perception was not needed. Just snake identification. Unlike you and me we are not like lots of people, we actually know a great deal about animal rather than getting it from imagination. red tailed hawks have a weight range that can equal or even exceed 3lbs. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:47:59 GMT 5
Hawks who have superior grappling ability compared to deinonychus and regularly hunt much smaller snakes can still get themselves killed ecen with ambush advantage. Trying to pin the snake down and eat it alive only gives it more than enough time to wrap up the raptor and kill it. I would go with a different stategy. ^ tell me where the specification "with their feet" is? All I see is they are superior grapplers. You said you specified, yet.... where? you wont find ut in that post because its not in it, however i did say this in a following post. "Not that it matters since i was refering to the grappeling ability of the feet of the two animals" |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:48:39 GMT 5
A red tail hawk weighs two pounds. The snake that was killed looked to be a bull snake which weigh from 3lbs to 9lbs on extreme occasions. The snake was bigger and got killed. Your argument is invalid. Visual perception was not needed. Just snake identification. Unlike you and me we are not like lots of people, we actually know a great deal about animal rather than getting it from imagination. red tailed hawks have a weight range that can equal or even exceed 3lbs. Red tail weigh 2lbs for females on average and in extreme occasion 4. Males weigh 1.5lbs to 3 on occasions. Bull snake minimum is 3lbs yet they can reach 9lbs. Tell me the odds of the hawk being bigger Mkay? |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:52:24 GMT 5
^ tell me where the specification "with their feet" is? All I see is they are superior grapplers. You said you specified, yet.... where? you wont find ut in that post because its not in it, however i did say this in a following post. "Not that it matters since i was refering to the grappeling ability of the feet of the two animals" You obviously decided to pull that out when you realized that this "Hawks are superior grapplers" was incorrect and just don't want to admit it. Therefore you switch to later "I was now referring about their feet" yet even that has no factual basis because no paper comparing deinonychus to extant raptors has ever even inferred that raptors are better grapplers with their feet. The only thing remotely resembling that is that extant raptors have a tad stronger grip strength. And grip strength and grasping ability are two different things. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:52:48 GMT 5
you can tell that there morphology doesnt allow for them to be nearly as proficient as mordern raptors in grasping that is if they even did grasp at all. LMFAO no where in any paper does it state hawks grapple better with the feet than their ancestor. If they did it would be a major point in their study..... DUH ! LMFAO where in tha post did i say I referring to the paper when i said modrn taptors have superior morphology for foot grappling? I quoted him to show him i was replying to him not in anyway to show i was taking evidence from the same paper he was.......DUH! |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 19:56:28 GMT 5
LMFAO no where in any paper does it state hawks grapple better with the feet than their ancestor. If they did it would be a major point in their study..... DUH ! LMFAO where in tha post did i say I referring to the paper when i said modrn taptors have superior morphology for foot grappling? I quoted him to show him i was replying to him not in anyway to show i was taking evidence from the same paper he was.......DUH! *facepalm* You get facts from published papers, you get arguments from published resources, if the countless papers don't support what you claim, then your claim is most likely false. Are you mentally challenged or something? Your "based on foot hur durr birds grapple better" isn't supported in any published paper. Therefore your claim is most likely incorrect...... DUH !! |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Aug 30, 2013 19:58:53 GMT 5
red tailed hawks have a weight range that can equal or even exceed 3lbs. Red tail weigh 2lbs for females on average and in extreme occasion 4. Males weigh 1.5lbs to 3 on occasions. Bull snake minimum is 3lbs yet they can reach 9lbs. Tell me the odds of the hawk being bigger Mkay? Your missing the point, the fact is there is no guarantee that the snake is bigger, which is the way you presented. This isnt even a part of the debate that weighs in heavily because i already post pics of much smaller snakes killing hawks, i simply didnt like that you presented an assumption (how good it was is irrelevant) about the animals weights and acted like it was a fact. |
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Post by Runic on Aug 30, 2013 20:02:32 GMT 5
Red tail weigh 2lbs for females on average and in extreme occasion 4. Males weigh 1.5lbs to 3 on occasions. Bull snake minimum is 3lbs yet they can reach 9lbs. Tell me the odds of the hawk being bigger Mkay? Your missing the point, the fact is there is no guarantee that the snake is bigger, which is the way you presented. This isnt even a part of the debate that weighs in heavily because i already post pics of much smaller snakes killing hawks, i simply didnt like that you presented an assumption (how good it was is irrelevant) about the animals weights and acted like it was a fact. Switching the blame again? What you initially showed is irrelevant as I stated "A simple rpr is enough to kill the snake" to which you say "oh smaller snakes have killed avial birds using rpr". Now I could have been a dick and said "and falcons have one shotted golden eagle & hyena have survived lion attacks, your point?" The majority of the time snakes are killed by birds. What happens the minority is irrelevant. I never said deinonychus would win every time. I just said rpr would work on the snake. Then you randomly come in with this beside my point crap. But regardless the most likely assumption is that the snake was bigger than the hawk. Point blank period. Their weight ranges and the length and girth of the snake favors my assumption. |
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