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Post by sam1 on Jul 15, 2018 19:10:22 GMT 5
So the title is pretty self explanatory.
I'll start with some feats of what I consider to be the most extreme predatory animal, the American Mink.
Will keep on posting here, but everyone is welcome to contribute.
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Post by elosha11 on Jul 16, 2018 5:03:52 GMT 5
That's pretty incredible. American mink don't appear to have any fear, attacking geese, eagles, pike and trout (in the water!) way bigger than them.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jul 16, 2018 5:22:23 GMT 5
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Post by sam1 on Jul 16, 2018 16:23:19 GMT 5
Golden Eagles are capable of taking down WOLVES. Admittedly, the eagles in point are trained to do it, but still. I can easily imagine how GE would deal with a coyote. |
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Post by theropod on Jul 16, 2018 21:38:38 GMT 5
Even more impressive, in fact bordering on the the downright crazy, is the reference in that paper to nesting golden eagles killing 230kg calves.
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Post by sam1 on Jul 17, 2018 0:31:08 GMT 5
^But what is a calf supposed to do in defense?
It's completely helpless. Its only "defense" is the amount of puncturing force its spinal cord can sustain.
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Post by theropod on Jul 17, 2018 2:47:58 GMT 5
That could be said about many large prey items. How many vertebrates do you know that can kill an animal 20 times their own size, even if the prey item’s defensive options are limited?
The ability to puncture the spinal chord (or braincase) of such a large prey item is what’s honestly hard to imagine. Of course a 230kg calf is somewhat helpless against a golden eagle, otherwise it would not be killed. But it certainly wouldn’t be helpless against a 5kg house cat…
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Post by sam1 on Jul 17, 2018 11:46:31 GMT 5
Yeah, because a house cat can't deliver fatal damage. Golden eagle's damage dealing potential is far greater.
Its talons and grip strength are extremely potent.
Disclaimer though - a 230kg calf *can* roll and try to crush an eagle. But I don't see it being too good at it.
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Post by sam1 on Jul 18, 2018 14:50:33 GMT 5
Not exactly like described in the title but no less fascinating regardless. That had to be about 7-8 meters high at least, maybe ever 10.
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Post by sam1 on Jul 20, 2018 17:54:28 GMT 5
Maybe the most fascinating and uncanny of them all, the epomis beetle larva and frog. It ALWAYS ends up like this.
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Post by sam1 on Jul 21, 2018 17:08:56 GMT 5
Imagine the power of this kick.
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Post by elosha11 on Jul 22, 2018 8:19:03 GMT 5
^Many human adults couldn't kick or throw a half pound football or soccer ball nearly as high as that orca "punted" that seal. It's a Pacific harbor seal, they weigh about 130 pounds as adults. It doesn't look like a pup, I don't know if it's full grown or not. By comparison here's perhaps the world's strongest man throwing a 56 pound hammer around 20 feet into the air. Note how much easier it would be to gain torque with his technique, plus he has the advantage of a handle to hold and secure, helping sling the weight into air. Think about how much harder it would be to throw a much heaver, slippery seal, with no "handles" and using a tail rather than a hand, with no fingers or prehensile ability to grasp onto the weight. So under the assumption that the seal weighs roughly 130 pounds, I'd make a total guess that this orca's tail throw is generating probably something like 30-40 more force than the world's strongest man? Someone who's more proficient in physics/mathematics and calculating vertical/horizontal displacement should do a calculation and comparison... Theropod, coherentsheaf, Ausar, any takers? Other amazing orca predatory displays.  |
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Post by elosha11 on Jul 22, 2018 8:23:44 GMT 5
Imagine the power of this kick. Here's what a biologist had to say about the event. See bold below. |
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Post by sam1 on Jul 22, 2018 13:49:38 GMT 5
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Post by theropod on Jul 22, 2018 17:15:22 GMT 5
OK, going by the proposed figures of 80 feet and 130 pounds vs 20 feet and 56 pounds
We need a bit of guesswork as to the distance both use for accellerating the "projectile". For the orca I’m going with about 3m, as it does seem to use its tail like a catapult and swings it pretty far into the air. But that’s only a very rough guess, I don’t know the length of the specific orca in question and it’s impossible to discern for how long the seal and the tail were actually in contact. So you can feel free to plug in a different figure if you want. The guy seems to accellerate the hammer from between his legs up to above his head, i.e. roughly his own body height, so let’s go with about 2m.
The energy imparted on the seal would be 59kg*g*24m=14160Nm, the energy of the hammer would be 25*g*6m=1500Nm. So the orca’s tail imparts roughly 10 times the kinetic energy on that seal that Ser Clegane (EDIT: wow, he really is! that was a lucky guess on my part) imparts on the hammer.
Based on the aforementioned distances, the (average) force the orca needs to impart during accelleration is 14160Nm/3m=4720N or 472kg, the average force for the human is 1500Nm/2m=750N or 75kg. Sounds reasonable?
As for the (vertical component of) speed at "takeoff", we need a separate calculation accounting for the distance over which the objects are accellerated, so 21m*59kg*g=0.5*59kg*v² → (210*2)^0.5=v=20.5ms⁻¹ for the seal, 4m*25kg*g=0.5*25kg*v² → (40*2)^0.5=v=8.9ms⁻¹ for the hammer.
Honestly, as the main propulsory organ of a multi-tonne predator, and a very fast one on top of that, I don’t find it at all surprising that orca tail slaps are very powerful. In fact playing flukeball with a seal is probably downright easy for them, as impressive as it is to a human-sized observer.
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