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Post by sam1 on Mar 27, 2019 13:37:48 GMT 5
Discuss anything related to orca predation on large whales (e.g. accounts, skepticism thereof, etc.). m.facebook.com/orcatalkoz/posts/2427275570669266From what I can tell, it is not known whether the blue whale was healthy or sick/injured prior to attack. But at any rate this is the first observation of such occurrence, and the biggest predation case so far recorded in nature. |
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Post by prehistorican on Mar 31, 2019 4:43:00 GMT 5
From what I can tell, it is not known whether the blue whale was healthy or sick/injured prior to attack. But at any rate this is the first observation of such occurrence, and the biggest predation case so far recorded in nature. Well actually: 1. it's around 15-18m, based on that it's easily less than 29 tonnes (estimated) 16.5^3/29.9^3 x 173 = ~ 29 tonnes 2. It took around 50 transient orcas about an hour to kill a whale of that size. That is an INSANELY large superpod or clan considering they travel in pods on average of 3-4. It's pretty impressive but I wouldn't call it an adult and it's nowhere near the size of an adult blue whale tier in terms of size let alone a fin whale.   |
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Post by elosha11 on Apr 3, 2019 1:12:30 GMT 5
From what I can tell, it is not known whether the blue whale was healthy or sick/injured prior to attack. But at any rate this is the first observation of such occurrence, and the biggest predation case so far recorded in nature. Well actually: 1. it's around 15-18m, based on that it's easily less than 29 tonnes (estimated) 16.5^3/29.9^3 x 173 = ~ 29 tonnes 2. It took around 50 transient orcas about an hour to kill a whale of that size. That is an INSANELY large superpod or clan considering they travel in pods on average of 3-4. It's pretty impressive but I wouldn't call it an adult and it's nowhere near the size of an adult blue whale tier in terms of size let alone a fin whale. I saw on the FB article where they counted around 50 whales, which I believe is even a larger superpod than the pod that attacked and wounded (killed?) an 18 meter juvenile blue whale awhile back. Where did you see the whale's estimate at 15-18 meters? I didn't see that in the article or comments, but I may have missed it. |
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Post by sam1 on Apr 3, 2019 2:04:50 GMT 5
From what I can tell, it is not known whether the blue whale was healthy or sick/injured prior to attack. But at any rate this is the first observation of such occurrence, and the biggest predation case so far recorded in nature. Well actually: 1. it's around 15-18m, based on that it's easily less than 29 tonnes (estimated) 16.5^3/29.9^3 x 173 = ~ 29 tonnes 2. It took around 50 transient orcas about an hour to kill a whale of that size. That is an INSANELY large superpod or clan considering they travel in pods on average of 3-4. It's pretty impressive but I wouldn't call it an adult and it's nowhere near the size of an adult blue whale tier in terms of size let alone a fin whale. Well, I might have jumped to conclusion then..the original link was on Reddit and there they titled it "adult blue whale". FYI, I wouldn't find 50 orcas taking even an adult blue whale "impressive", in the way you see things as impressive. See I'm not particularly impressed by brute force, by blood, gore and teeth. The only thing that would, conditionally speaking, impress me, is the persistence and determination..but then I'd ask myself why are they bothering wearing down the behemoth to death in the first place and see it as a not so good sign for the pod, bordering with despair. The initial post was not to gloat over themighty killing potential of orcas; it was merely to note the occurrence. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 3, 2019 2:26:59 GMT 5
Well actually: 1. it's around 15-18m, based on that it's easily less than 29 tonnes (estimated) 16.5^3/29.9^3 x 173 = ~ 29 tonnes 2. It took around 50 transient orcas about an hour to kill a whale of that size. That is an INSANELY large superpod or clan considering they travel in pods on average of 3-4. It's pretty impressive but I wouldn't call it an adult and it's nowhere near the size of an adult blue whale tier in terms of size let alone a fin whale. I saw on the FB article where they counted around 50 whales, which I believe is even a larger superpod than the pod that attacked and wounded (killed?) an 18 meter juvenile blue whale awhile back. Where did you see the whale's estimate at 15-18 meters? I didn't see that in the article or comments, but I may have missed it. I checked the comments section, and it's not too far down from the OP (starts with the person named Nancy Black, and you can see Project ORCA's response). |
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Post by prehistorican on Apr 3, 2019 5:33:58 GMT 5
Well actually: 1. it's around 15-18m, based on that it's easily less than 29 tonnes (estimated) 16.5^3/29.9^3 x 173 = ~ 29 tonnes 2. It took around 50 transient orcas about an hour to kill a whale of that size. That is an INSANELY large superpod or clan considering they travel in pods on average of 3-4. It's pretty impressive but I wouldn't call it an adult and it's nowhere near the size of an adult blue whale tier in terms of size let alone a fin whale. Well, I might have jumped to conclusion then..the original link was on Reddit and there they titled it "adult blue whale". FYI, I wouldn't find 50 orcas taking even an adult blue whale "impressive", in the way you see things as impressive. See I'm not particularly impressed by brute force, by blood, gore and teeth. The only thing that would, conditionally speaking, impress me, is the persistence and determination..but then I'd ask myself why are they bothering wearing down the behemoth to death in the first place and see it as a not so good sign for the pod, bordering with despair. The initial post was not to gloat over themighty killing potential of orcas; it was merely to note the occurrence. Me neither, I didn't really mean it is impressive and neither do I see things in the way of impressive in terms of brute force, blood, gore and teeth which for some reason you seem to assume, but I am not exactly surprised at such comments made at this point. Anyways, I would only find such an occurrence notable because of the size of the pod. I would only find it interesting an orca pod kills a medium whale, in which the mass of the whale outweighs the total mass of the orca pod but that has not really happened. Also to note a problem with the media calling large whales species "adults" when they are only a fraction of the length and mass always being subadults or juveniles. For example link: www.petethomasoutdoors.com/2013/07/orcas-attack-kill-large-fin-whale-off-la-paz-rare-footage.html When in reality the "large fin whale" was 14-16m and about the same weight as this whale or less. For comparison the largest fin whales reach 114 tonnes and 26m and an adult fin whale is 18.5-20 and 38.5-50.5 tonnes but in other regions much larger. |
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Post by elosha11 on Apr 3, 2019 21:19:52 GMT 5
Sam1 and Prehistorican - I appreciate both of your comments and insights. I don't think there's any reason to be terse with each other. I don't think anyone on this thread was trying to imply that if it takes "x" amount of orcas to prey upon "x" size of blue whale, therefore [some negative/positive comment about orcas, blue whales, Meg/Livyatan or any other prehistoric animal]. I suppose incidents such as this could have some impact on one opinion's in our many hypothetical threads about orca pods v. ____, but I, for one, join you in not seeing that as the primary focus of this article.
I share Sam1's concerns that orcas may in fact be "forced" to hunt such prey out of desperation and lack of usual hunting targets, largely due to climate and environmental changes brought about by humans' destructive tendencies. I also share prehistorican's annoyance at media ignorance in misclassifying this whale as an adult (although I will note that blue whales, like many species may be losing their historically enormous sizes due to mankind's encroachments).
In the end this is a fascinating, if grim, story of the continuing life cycle of planet Earth. Orcas are going to be apex predators no matter what, and their caloric needs must be met, or they will go extinct. That may mean unexpected consequences and new prey sources, such as great white sharks or huge whales they might not prefer to go after, all else being equal. What pressure that will put upon other species remains to be seen. One of the many unintended consequences of man's impact upon nature...
Anyway, really interesting article. I am glad that blue whales are, relatively speaking, making a comeback and likely can sustain greater losses if orcas begin to target them more frequently.
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Post by sam1 on Apr 4, 2019 15:10:26 GMT 5
Sam1 and Prehistorican - I appreciate both of your comments and insights. I don't think there's any reason to be terse with each other. I don't think anyone on this thread was trying to imply that if it takes "x" amount of orcas to prey upon "x" size of blue whale, therefore [some negative/positive comment about orcas, blue whales, Meg/Livyatan or any other prehistoric animal]. I suppose incidents such as this could have some impact on one opinion's in our many hypothetical threads about orca pods v. ____, but I, for one, join you in not seeing that as the primary focus of this article. I share Sam1's concerns that orcas may in fact be "forced" to hunt such prey out of desperation and lack of usual hunting targets, largely due to climate and environmental changes brought about by humans' destructive tendencies. I also share prehistorican's annoyance at media ignorance in misclassifying this whale as an adult (although I will note that blue whales, like many species may be losing their historically enormous sizes due to mankind's encroachments). In the end this is a fascinating, if grim, story of the continuing life cycle of planet Earth. Orcas are going to be apex predators no matter what, and their caloric needs must be met, or they will go extinct. That may mean unexpected consequences and new prey sources, such as great white sharks or huge whales they might not prefer to go after, all else being equal. What pressure that will put upon other species remains to be seen. One of the many unintended consequences of man's impact upon nature... Anyway, really interesting article. I am glad that blue whales are, relatively speaking, making a comeback and likely can sustain greater losses if orcas begin to target them more frequently. Great reply. I was merely reacting to the whole "impressive" narrative that was being brought up yet again. Honestly weren't having that narrative in mind when posting the article. |
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Post by sam1 on Apr 8, 2019 12:04:11 GMT 5
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Post by prehistorican on Apr 12, 2019 6:26:46 GMT 5
I wonder what are some other extreme measures the orca have taken. What other prey have they tried to catch (that are difficult or impossible to kill)? It seems the oceanic food chain could be unstable, affecting the smaller animals first and then the larger ones. Could also be attributable to more observation but idk.
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Post by theropod on Oct 5, 2019 18:41:18 GMT 5
Well, maybe I’m just not as focused on remembering every flamewar that ever happened on carnivora (though I do wonder why you "remember" it, seeing how you weren’t even on carnivora when that happened). I do seem to recall there was more than one such incident that eventually caused them to "leave" carnivora (with some "help" by Taipan).
But at any rate, the case of the subadult blue whale has been done to death. This is not the first time I point out that far smaller groups of orcas have also been recorded successfully preying on animals as large as, or larger than, that whale. Yet somehow people keep focusing on this particular incident as evidence of the supposed inability of 30 orcas to kill an 18 m rorqual, as if it were some sort of proof of their inability to kill large prey, despite the abundant evidence that they can.
Yes, large prey is difficult to kill, big surprise. But orcas seem quite apt at doing it, as far as large predators go. Surprisingly apt even (probably down to their intelligence and team work) considering their dentitions, which aren’t really ideal for this sort of task. There is a record of 5 orcas successfully killing an adult blue whale, according to Jefferson et al.’s appendix. That somehow doesn’t get mentioned.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Oct 5, 2019 19:25:33 GMT 5
It dates to before 1925. Honestly, I can at least understand someone being skeptical of an account that old.
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Post by theropod on Oct 5, 2019 19:27:26 GMT 5
Being sceptical is one thing, not even discussing it is another.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Oct 5, 2019 20:06:41 GMT 5
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve at least acknowledged this account (and other, even older, accounts listed in that appendix of small numbers of or single orcas successfully killing giant whales) before and addressed it. Admittedly on another forum and not this one (well, not that I remember at least).
Aside from the pre-1925 account of 5 orcas killing an adult blue whale, there’s a record of 2 orcas killing one fin whale...that dates back to 1908. There’s a record of one orca killing a humpback (I’m going to presume the humpback was an adult)...that dates back to 1830. And a report of 3 orcas attacking and mortally wounding a bowhead...that dates back to the 1800s (1898?).
I'm not going to completely discount these, but yeah, skepticism definitely warranted. Any other reports I’m missing?
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Post by spartan on Oct 5, 2019 20:42:04 GMT 5
There is also an account of similar age of a bowhead killing an orca with a single strike. While Orcas can successfully hunt large whales, they fail much more often than not (like most predators), especially with the whale species that tend to fight back.
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