|
Post by elosha11 on Aug 26, 2020 14:14:09 GMT 5
Makos can probably prey upon any species of dolphin up to and including the large bottlenose dolphin. But they can't prey upon this one. This is obviously a very small, juvenile mako, but still note the enormous size disparity between the orca and the mako.
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Oct 17, 2020 1:54:14 GMT 5
Here's the damage a very large tiger shark inflicted on a large bottlenose dolphin in South Carolina. according to the poster who was an eyewitness, the dolphin was measured at 8ft 9in and required 5 adults to lift it into a vehicle to dispose of. He claims the tiger shark was 15 to 18 ft long. I doubt it was 18 ft, as it would be extremely uncommon for a tiger shark to reach that length, but it may have been up to 15 feet, which would still be a huge tiger shark.
Obviously, there was a large size disparity between the shark and the dolphin, but the more I see of these shark / dolphin encounters, it seems fairly conclusive that as long as a dolphin is the same size or smaller than the shark, the shark can inflict the enormous damage on it. That applies to great whites, tiger sharks, mako sharks, or bull sharks. Makos and bull sharks particularly, are often the same size, or sometimes even a bit smaller than their dolphin prey and yet they routinely kill sizable dolphins.
It seems as if dolphins need to be very big, have fully functioning teeth and jaws, AND still live in huge pods to truly deter shark attacks. That would be the false killer whales, and even those formidable dolphins still get attacked by large sharks periodically.
Of course the one exception is the gigantic orca, but it is so vastly different from any other dolphin, it is truly an aberration. Still, the more I see of how similarly sized sharks and dolphins interact, I think if a predatory shark existed that was comparable in size to an orca, it might very well have a predatory advantage in a one on one conflict. That is not to say that orcas are not superior and more formidable predators pound-for-pound than smaller dolphins, because they are. They have those powerful rams, powerful jaws, and fully functional teeth. But it just seems like a shark that is comparable in size to a dolphin can just shred the mammal's flesh and blubber ever so easily and inflict such massive damage. I don't think an orca would be immune from such damage. In fact, early in this thread there is a distinctly shark shaped bite out of a male orca's tail which was likely a mako. Who knows if the much smaller shark was able to survive that encounter, but the fact that it could so easily cut through the orca's flesh, should make one pause to think what kind of damage a 25 to 30-foot shark could do to the orca.
|
|
|
Post by Supercommunist on Oct 17, 2020 2:27:46 GMT 5
I agree Elosha, there is this popular sentiment that pods of orcas could defeat megalodons and livyatan's could also best them due to their superior intelligence, but you don't really see many incidents of highly intelligent animals killing formidable predators that often.
For instance:
Chimps are more intelligent than leopards and live in large troops, they still are frequently eaten by leopards.
A crow can hold its own against a hawk, but usually the hawk wins and I never heard of a crow killing a healthy hawk by itself.
Dwarf elephants were probably as intelligent as their modern relatives but it is assumed that they were once a main food for komodo dragons.
Intelligence is a useful survival trait but it has limited applications in a serious 1 on 1 fight.
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Oct 17, 2020 2:46:30 GMT 5
Interesting and territorial little shark. I'm guessing it's a small bull shark. It also runs counter to this idea that sharks rarely go after things bigger than themselves.
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Oct 17, 2020 2:59:06 GMT 5
Of course, pods of dolphins can offer a deterrence sharks, particularly ones that are not much bigger than them. Here is an example of a bottlenose pod mildly harassing a juvenile great white, although the shark doesn't really seem to be all that much bothered by it.
And here is a dolphin in a pod that seems to surprise and briefly chase a shark. I'm not sure the species, I don't think it is any of the really dangerous ones. Probably some kind of reef shark.
|
|
|
Post by Life on Oct 28, 2020 2:22:44 GMT 5
I agree Elosha, there is this popular sentiment that pods of orcas could defeat megalodons and livyatan's could also best them due to their superior intelligence, but you don't really see many incidents of highly intelligent animals killing formidable predators that often. For instance: Chimps are more intelligent than leopards and live in large troops, they still are frequently eaten by leopards. A crow can hold its own against a hawk, but usually the hawk wins and I never heard of a crow killing a healthy hawk by itself. Dwarf elephants were probably as intelligent as their modern relatives but it is assumed that they were once a main food for komodo dragons. Intelligence is a useful survival trait but it has limited applications in a serious 1 on 1 fight. Well said. Great white sharks are strong creatures TBH - their losses to Killer whales are being mistaken for inferiority and this perception is further extrapolated to ancient times without much thought and focus on actual findings/clues. On a closer look, Great whites are lacking in aggression - they have curious minds shaped by millions of years of history of co-existence with relatively larger and more formidable megatoothed sharks which relocated Great white types to mid-tier predation roles. Killer whales are able to exploit this dynamic to their advantage and are usually the first to attack (preemptive strike) - a Great white is caught offguard in the process. Great whites have also suffered much due to human interventions lately - fewer individuals being able to reach adulthood and learn. Give Great whites sufficient space and time and they might learn to challenge Killer whales at some point. People are forgetting that sharks managed to outlive Ichthyosaurs, Pliosaurs, Mosasaurs and more. This wasn't by accident and being lunch for others through the ages. Sharks were able to respond to numerous challenges from time-to-time. Now that megatoothed sharks do not exist, Great whites can also rise and shine in time. But human interventions...
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Nov 2, 2020 19:13:37 GMT 5
|
|
|
Post by Supercommunist on Jan 19, 2021 4:36:08 GMT 5
5:42 young humpback whale that got bitten by sharks:
|
|
|
Post by Supercommunist on Jan 24, 2021 3:07:55 GMT 5
I just noticed that the tiger shark dolphin video got taken down. Anybody make a copy of it?
|
|
|
Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 24, 2021 3:28:52 GMT 5
The video's perspective was facing the shark's rear and it was tearing up a dolphin, right? I think I know what video this was, but I could be remembering wrong.
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Jun 12, 2021 2:21:25 GMT 5
This is really amazing footage from Florida. I'm about 90% convinced it's a shark, likely a mako, given its size and what looks like to be pointed nostrum. Could also be a juvenile great white, or possibly a bull shark although they are not known for breaching. I'm almost sure it's a shark and not another dolphin, as the dorsal fin very much looks like a shark and different than the dolphin's, Its head also looks like a shark and it seems you can see the shark's jaws move and like it may have bitten the dolphin at the apex of the jump. You can see the dolphin's body appeared to be impacted. Truly amazing footage, if it is a shark. www.wate.com/news/watch-possible-shark-dolphin-spotted-near-port-st-joe/
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Jul 24, 2021 2:33:34 GMT 5
|
|
|
Post by elosha11 on Aug 1, 2021 4:39:57 GMT 5
|
|
|
Post by Supercommunist on Aug 1, 2021 9:58:15 GMT 5
^You would think given the size difference the orca's wouldn't need to be so methodical and just bel able the shark with a few bites.
|
|
|
Post by Infinity Blade on Aug 1, 2021 20:44:34 GMT 5
Orcas, especially those that hunt more dangerous prey, just seem to be really cautious predators (and I think given their high intelligence that makes sense). I've seen sources that consider Steller sea lions and walruses to be formidable and dangerous prey to orcas, even though the dolphins clearly outweigh these pinnipeds. Obviously they can and do kill them. At the same time, however, Steller sea lion defensive actions are actually rather effective, since a lot of predation attempts are unsuccessful.
|
|