Estemmnosuchus uralensis vs Common Eland(Taurotragus oryx)

[blaze]

From Ivakhnenko (2001)

Very large animals, tall, massive skull reaches a length of 65cm (E. uralensis), with a body length of more than 3m.

References:
M. F. Ivakhnenko, “Tetrapods from the East European Placket—Late Paleozoic Natural Territorial Complex,” Proceedings of the Paleontological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences 283, pp. 200 (2001). (In Russian). (google books, go to page 96).

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2013 4:14:03 GMT 5 blaze said:

From Ivakhnenko (2001)

Very large animals, tall, massive skull reaches a length of 65cm (E. uralensis), with a body length of more than 3m.

References:
M. F. Ivakhnenko, “Tetrapods from the East European Placket—Late Paleozoic Natural Territorial Complex,” Proceedings of the Paleontological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences 283, pp. 200 (2001). (In Russian). (google books, go to page 96).

Thanks! It seems like Estemmnosuchus has the bulk and bite to take this eland down.

[blaze]

No problem, it's hard to find data on russian taxa, specially if you don't speak russian (which I don't) btw have you noticed that according to "the internet" all large dinocephalians are 4-5m long? haha

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2013 6:49:18 GMT 5 blaze said:

No problem, it's hard to find data on russian taxa, specially if you don't speak russian (which I don't) btw have you noticed that according to "the internet" all large dinocephalians are 4-5m long? haha

Yeah, it seems like they just copied the length figures from Moschops or something.

In reality, only Moschops and Tapinocephalus(assuming that it had Moschops' skull-to-body ratio) are at that length, as far as I know.

[creature386]

blaze
If you don't speak Russian, did you have to google translate the whole text dealing with Estemmenosuchidae to find something?

[blaze]

I did google translate it haha but I was already familiar with the format of that book when I searched for info on Inostrancevia, I knew what to translate first, just below the family name it says from where is endemic and from how many genera is known and in this case, it says it's only known from Estemmenosuchus, meaning that the rest of the text is all for Estemmenosuchus, on top of that the units are barely different (65CM/3M instead of 65cm/3m) so it wasn't that hard to find a section of the text dealing with its size.

edit:
broly, probably not even them, I'm reading "Gregory. 1926. The skeleton of Moschops capensis Broom, a dinocephalian reptile from the Permian of South Africa." Of the three partial skeletons recovered (there were also fragmentary remains of at least other 4 individuals), the "mid size" skeleton which was mounted, is said to have an axial length of ~2.7m, there's another skeleton though, bigger than it, but it doesn't seem to be much bigger, the humerus and femur are only ~6% longer, indicating a total length of ~2.9m. In respect to Tapinocephalus, the skull of the midsize specimen of Moschops is 42cm in greatest length, Gregory (1926) says that the largest skull of Tapinocephalus is 53cm in greatest length, assuming isometry, that'll make the largest Tapinocephalus known (at the time and apparently still the biggest 30 years later, Boonstra 1956) just 3.4m long.

But who knows, this papers are over 50 years old, maybe there were bigger specimens found?

[Deleted]

The Estemmnosuchus wouldn't have much problems charging at the eland and crushing it.

[Infinity Blade]

The eland is absolutely not winning this. Its build is badly outmatched by that of Estemmenosuchus, both in terms of the torso and its appendicular anatomy; I can imagine the dinocephalian easily knocking the bovid to the ground and dispatching it. Estemmenosuchus' weaponry is also much more impressive; it has a big, robust skull filled with sharp canines and incisors and, as a dinocephalian, could headbutt the eland with its thickened skull roof and horns. The eland has horns that can be effective weapons if used correctly, but it also has a relatively small head that definitely isn't going to cut it against the head and mouth of Estemmenosuchus.

Estemmenosuchus wins easily.

[Carcharodon]

If this was around at parity, estemmenosuchus should win imo due to its bulk and has the bite to kill the eland.

[blaze]

Infinity Blade
The specimen with the 65cm long skull probably approached 700kg.

[Infinity Blade]

Thanks blaze.

[An Goldish Jade]

around the same size, the Estemmenosuchus would win, its jaw are impressive weaponry, and its robust body, can let it survive the horns of eland.

[Deleted]

SO at parity then, the Esetemmeno would win.

[dinosauria101]

Estemmenosuchus wins comfortably