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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 16:35:54 GMT 5
Also, this one: www.academia.edu/35584021/Crocodile_human_conflict_in_National_Chambal_Sanctuary_IndiaPage 107. The crocs seem to have been able to kill several buffaloes ~4 times their weight. Not to mention this (the buffalo would probably have been 2-2.5 times the mass of the croc): And if that wasn't enough, there's also that 4.2 meter croc killing the giraffe bull (which would be about 3.5x its weight) Crocs seem very capable of macropredation. But they don't seem to do it all that much. Hmm. Thanks for the share. It does look like an adult crocodile is capable of handling an animal almost twice its own mass, provided it get a good grip on the animal. However, handling an animal nearly 5 times as large is too much. Particularly, if it is marine and moving. Crocodiles do not challenge a shark of comparable size or larger. If this have ever happened, exceedingly rare. Buffalo and Giraffe are virtually helpless in a marine environment regardless.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 17:20:03 GMT 5
Also, this one: www.academia.edu/35584021/Crocodile_human_conflict_in_National_Chambal_Sanctuary_IndiaPage 107. The crocs seem to have been able to kill several buffaloes ~4 times their weight. Not to mention this (the buffalo would probably have been 2-2.5 times the mass of the croc): And if that wasn't enough, there's also that 4.2 meter croc killing the giraffe bull (which would be about 3.5x its weight) Crocs seem very capable of macropredation. But they don't seem to do it all that much. Hmm. Thanks for the share. It does look like an adult crocodile is capable of handling an animal almost twice its own mass, provided it get a good grip on the animal. However, handling an animal nearly 5 times as large is too much. Particularly, if it is marine and moving. Crocodiles do not challenge a shark of comparable size or larger. If this have ever happened, exceedingly rare. Buffalo and Giraffe are virtually helpless in a marine environment regardless. The Megalodon is only about 4 times the mass of a Purussaurus; I posted an account of a croc killing a buffalo 4 times larger on land. Not to mention mugger crocs regularly eat water buffalo 4 times their size, and not all of that is in extremely deep water. If that wasn't enough, Purussaurus even has serrated teeth which would help even MORE. creature386, I could be wrong, but I think you posted a study on Animalia which said Puru had serrated teeth. If you did, do you still have it?
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Post by creature386 on Nov 30, 2019 17:29:58 GMT 5
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 18:27:06 GMT 5
Oh, PSEUDOserrated. Thanks anyway for the study.
That might help even more, now that I think about it. Sharks have very tough and leathery hide, and the combination of slicing, crushing, and puncture-and-pull features would be quite effective.
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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 19:08:53 GMT 5
Hmm. Thanks for the share. It does look like an adult crocodile is capable of handling an animal almost twice its own mass, provided it get a good grip on the animal. However, handling an animal nearly 5 times as large is too much. Particularly, if it is marine and moving. Crocodiles do not challenge a shark of comparable size or larger. If this have ever happened, exceedingly rare. Buffalo and Giraffe are virtually helpless in a marine environment regardless. The Megalodon is only about 4 times the mass of a Purussaurus; I posted an account of a croc killing a buffalo 4 times larger on land. Not to mention mugger crocs regularly eat water buffalo 4 times their size, and not all of that is in extremely deep water. If that wasn't enough, Purussaurus even has serrated teeth which would help even MORE. creature386, I could be wrong, but I think you posted a study on Animalia which said Puru had serrated teeth. If you did, do you still have it? Buffalo is 1 ton maximum. And if you look carefully, you will notice a very large crocodile that was trying to kill it. This crocodile would be roughly in the 14 - 15 feet TL range. A crocodile of this size is around 500 kg in mass. Very impressive feat without any doubt. However, as I pointed out, buffalo is largely helpless in water. It had to worry about breathing in water let alone wrestle the crocodile. Megalodon is an entirely different game in comparison. Purrusaurus might be hunting large bony fish or small sharks in shallow waters - this might explain a semi-serrated dentition. But Megalodon? No.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 19:13:29 GMT 5
The Megalodon is only about 4 times the mass of a Purussaurus; I posted an account of a croc killing a buffalo 4 times larger on land. Not to mention mugger crocs regularly eat water buffalo 4 times their size, and not all of that is in extremely deep water. If that wasn't enough, Purussaurus even has serrated teeth which would help even MORE. creature386 , I could be wrong, but I think you posted a study on Animalia which said Puru had serrated teeth. If you did, do you still have it? Buffalo is 1 ton maximum. And if you look carefully, you will notice a very large crocodile that was trying to kill it. This crocodile would be roughly in the 14 - 15 feet TL range. A crocodile of this size is around 500 kg in mass. Very impressive feat without any doubt. However, as I pointed out, buffalo is largely helpless in water. It had to worry about breathing in water let alone wrestle the crocodile. Megalodon is an entirely different game in comparison. Purrusaurus might be hunting large bony fish or small sharks in shallow waters - this might be explain a semi-serrated dentition. But Megalodon? No. I'm referring to mugger crocodiles and wild water buffalo, not Nile crocs and Cape buffalo - muggers average 220 kg while wild water buffalo average ~1 tonne. They're a regular part of the diet of muggers, in addition to that account I posted of a mugger killing a buffalo in very, very shallow water (in other words, functionally the same as land with some extra moisture). Plus, there's the croc killing the giraffe on land about 3.5 times larger. This isn't all in water. I do think the megalodon has a fair chance, but impressive weapons, numbers, and attacking from all sides make me lean towards the caimans. If they could bite the gills, even better
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Post by Infinity Blade on Nov 30, 2019 19:15:14 GMT 5
For anyone interested, the paper creature386 posted above includes a picture of a tooth from P. brasiliensis. You can see the pseudoziphodont carinae there. Although they aren't completely identical in physical structure to true ziphodont serrations, they apparently function similarly, as the paper states.
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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 19:19:49 GMT 5
Buffalo is 1 ton maximum. And if you look carefully, you will notice a very large crocodile that was trying to kill it. This crocodile would be roughly in the 14 - 15 feet TL range. A crocodile of this size is around 500 kg in mass. Very impressive feat without any doubt. However, as I pointed out, buffalo is largely helpless in water. It had to worry about breathing in water let alone wrestle the crocodile. Megalodon is an entirely different game in comparison. Purrusaurus might be hunting large bony fish or small sharks in shallow waters - this might be explain a semi-serrated dentition. But Megalodon? No. I'm referring to mugger crocodiles and wild water buffalo, not Nile crocs and Cape buffalo - muggers average 220 kg while wild water buffalo average ~1 tonne. They're a regular part of the diet of muggers, in addition to that account I posted of a mugger killing a buffalo in very, very shallow water (in other words, functionally the same as land with some extra moisture). Plus, there's the croc killing the giraffe on land about 3.5 times larger. This isn't all in water. I do think the megalodon has a fair chance, but impressive weapons, numbers, and attacking from all sides make me lean towards the caimans. If they could bite the gills, even better That is conjecture - WE do not really know if a float of Purrusaurus hunted in that fashion (attacking from all sides) - sound like B-movie monster moves. Attacking gills of a moving shark isn't an easy task otherwise every animal could just strike at the gills and be done with it. I recall a paper which indicated that the Carchorcles chubutensis form flourished in shallow water environments as well. Lot of bones bear dental imprints of this megatoothed shark in shallow water environments among others.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 19:22:37 GMT 5
I'm referring to mugger crocodiles and wild water buffalo, not Nile crocs and Cape buffalo - muggers average 220 kg while wild water buffalo average ~1 tonne. They're a regular part of the diet of muggers, in addition to that account I posted of a mugger killing a buffalo in very, very shallow water (in other words, functionally the same as land with some extra moisture). Plus, there's the croc killing the giraffe on land about 3.5 times larger. This isn't all in water. I do think the megalodon has a fair chance, but impressive weapons, numbers, and attacking from all sides make me lean towards the caimans. If they could bite the gills, even better That is conjecture - WE do not really know if a float of Purrusaurus hunted in that fashion (attacking from all sides) - sound like B-movie monster moves. Attacking gills of a moving shark isn't an easy task otherwise every animal could just strike at the gills and be done with it. I recall a paper which indicated that the Carchorcles chubutensis form flourished in shallow water environments as well. Lot of bones bear dental imprints of this megatoothed shark in shallow water environments among others. It's assuming similar behavior to modern floats of crocodilians, which tend to attack large prey from all angles. I'm not saying they're invariably going to think to go for the gills, but given their strategy it's not outside of reason to think the gills might be targeted. And that sounds pretty interesting - there was some debate over whether Purussaurus vs Chubutensis/Subauriculatus was sympatric, but it most likely is.
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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 20:16:30 GMT 5
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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 20:24:09 GMT 5
That is conjecture - WE do not really know if a float of Purrusaurus hunted in that fashion (attacking from all sides) - sound like B-movie monster moves. Attacking gills of a moving shark isn't an easy task otherwise every animal could just strike at the gills and be done with it. I recall a paper which indicated that the Carchorcles chubutensis form flourished in shallow water environments as well. Lot of bones bear dental imprints of this megatoothed shark in shallow water environments among others. It's assuming similar behavior to modern floats of crocodilians, which tend to attack large prey from all angles. I'm not saying they're invariably going to think to go for the gills, but given their strategy it's not outside of reason to think the gills might be targeted. And that sounds pretty interesting - there was some debate over whether Purussaurus vs Chubutensis/Subauriculatus was sympatric, but it most likely is. You are suggesting hunting prowess on par with killer whales which is overreaching. Crocodilians are AMBUSH predators as in they wait for animals/creatures to traverse their domain, and capture one when it is really close. They do not venture into deeper waters to challenge large sharks. Come on now. Megalodon cannot function in extremely shallow waters accommodating crocodilians due to its massive size - kinda obvious. A float of Purussaurus will have to traverse deeper waters to challenge a Megalodon, and this is an environment where Megalodon is likely to GAME them - not the opposite.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 20:45:06 GMT 5
It's assuming similar behavior to modern floats of crocodilians, which tend to attack large prey from all angles. I'm not saying they're invariably going to think to go for the gills, but given their strategy it's not outside of reason to think the gills might be targeted. And that sounds pretty interesting - there was some debate over whether Purussaurus vs Chubutensis/Subauriculatus was sympatric, but it most likely is. You are suggesting hunting prowess on par with killer whales which is clearly overreaching. Crocodilians are AMBUSH predators as in they wait for animals/creatures to traverse their domain, and capture one when it is really close. They do not venture into deeper waters to challenge large sharks. Come on now. Megalodon cannot function in an extremely shallow waters accommodating crocodilians due to its massive size - kinda obvious. A float of Purussaurus will have to traverse deeper waters to challenge a Megalodon though, and this is an environment where Megalodon will GAME them - not the opposite. No, not on par with killer whales. Killer whales tend to plan carefully executed attacks on prey and are continuously social, while crocodilians live in the presence of one another and attack large prey simultaneously - some examples of this are yacare/spectacled caimans in South America today. They can be lone ambush predators, but if there's enough of them and a big enough prey item they can just as easily mob it. What handicap would deep water present for the caimans? They would probably be just fine.
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Post by Life on Nov 30, 2019 20:59:19 GMT 5
You are suggesting hunting prowess on par with killer whales which is clearly overreaching. Crocodilians are AMBUSH predators as in they wait for animals/creatures to traverse their domain, and capture one when it is really close. They do not venture into deeper waters to challenge large sharks. Come on now. Megalodon cannot function in an extremely shallow waters accommodating crocodilians due to its massive size - kinda obvious. A float of Purussaurus will have to traverse deeper waters to challenge a Megalodon though, and this is an environment where Megalodon will GAME them - not the opposite. No, not on par with killer whales. Killer whales tend to plan carefully executed attacks on prey and are continuously social, while crocodilians live in the presence of one another and attack large prey simultaneously - some examples of this are yacare/spectacled caimans in South America today. They can be lone ambush predators, but if there's enough of them and a big enough prey item they can just as easily mob it. What handicap would deep water present for the caimans? They would probably be just fine. I see. Nevertheless, Megalodon is very likely to notice a float of crocodilians in its domain and try to GAME them (sufficient room to maneuver and plan its attack). Megalodon can literally one-shot a crocodilian, and the remainder will be spooked. Even if one or two manage to land a bite or two on a Megalodon, this isn't going to make much difference since the shark is very strong as well (it isn't disadvantaged in waters like terrestrial animals who need to worry about breathing if pulled under), and can turn swiftly to gravely injure/kill another crocodilian during the course of battle. WE are talking about a shark which was holding its own against killer whale forms worldwide. Worst Case Scenario: Megalodon will suffer some injuries but will prevail.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 30, 2019 21:35:16 GMT 5
No, not on par with killer whales. Killer whales tend to plan carefully executed attacks on prey and are continuously social, while crocodilians live in the presence of one another and attack large prey simultaneously - some examples of this are yacare/spectacled caimans in South America today. They can be lone ambush predators, but if there's enough of them and a big enough prey item they can just as easily mob it. What handicap would deep water present for the caimans? They would probably be just fine. I see. Nevertheless, Megalodon is very likely to notice a float of crocodilians in its domain and try to GAME them (sufficient room to maneuver and plan its attack). Megalodon can literally one-shot a crocodilian, and the remainder will be spooked. Even if one or two manage to land a bite or two on a Megalodon, this isn't going to make much difference since the shark is very strong as well (it isn't disadvantaged in waters like terrestrial animals who need to worry about breathing if pulled under), and can turn swiftly to gravely injure/kill another crocodilian during the course of battle. WE are talking about a shark which was holding its own against killer whale forms worldwide. Worst Case Scenario: Megalodon will suffer some injuries but will prevail. Surely the Purussaurus float has a chance, doesn't it? I could see Meg fending them off in a natural scenario, but in a fight to the death the worst that could happen is probably a LOT more than just some injuries for the Meg
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