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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 21:15:10 GMT 5
1: If it's hard SF than it's maybe a bit better. But both had similar effects on the public 1: Not sure. JW might have affected more people, but do you think your neighbor who watched Indominus rex snack a bunch of sauropods logs in into Carnivora? People in the AVA community know not to take JP/JW too seriously. COTD is a whole different beast, however. 2: TopPhilosopher1 and his clones kept citing it as a source (alongside the more reliable Planet Dinosaur). Why dinosaur documentaries are a suboptimal (and in specific cases even terrible) source thus is hard to convey. 3: Especially if it's one of these documentaries that hides behind the authority of talking heads. The ridiculous scenes of the Deinonychus taking down the Sauroposeidon are superficially supported by the authority of leading sauropod-expert Matt Wedel. In the case of COTD, we can at least show that they spread outright misinformation by taking his quotes out of context: svpow.com/2009/12/15/lies-damned-lies-and-clash-of-the-dinosaurs/4: However, there are other terrible documentaries, like Mega Beasts/Monsters Resurrected, which committed no similarly easy-to-demonstrate reputation-destroying blunders. All these terrible dino documentaries have had more resources and scientific advisors than random people on the Internet critiquing them which is why people confuse them with reliable sources. 2: They may have been, but look at what the public could remember! 5: Don't see your point. The general public remembers Velociraptors very well and they were stars throughout the whole JP franchise. Spinosaurus is less well-known, but that's mainly because JP III was not that much of a success (it made 1/3 of the box office of the original JP). "Dilophosaurus" is hardly a household name, on the other hand. 1: I bet you if you ask a bunch of random people you see (note: don't do that) who like dinosaurs at ALL, a sizeable amount will give T rex a good chance against Argentinosaurus or Sauroposeidon 2: Isn't he the guy who was perpetuating the 7 meter Mapusaurus? 3: Yep, the quote mining sucked. 4: Monsters Resurrected was actually pretty accurate with Varanus priscus - they severely undersized it, but everything was correct. Having said that, their super-Amphicyon and Spinosaurus-on-steroids are very problematic. 5: Apparently from what I heard on the Theropoda discord server, a lot of people still believe JP3 Spino. So it's standing quite well! |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 21:41:16 GMT 5
1: I bet you if you ask a bunch of random people you see (note: don't do that) who like dinosaurs at ALL, a sizeable amount will give T rex a good chance against Argentinosaurus or Sauroposeidon That's true. There's a recurring theme of people overestimating the deadliness of predators. That's why people are surprised to learn that hippos kill more people than lions or that coconuts are more deadly than great white sharks (the latter misconception has tragic consequences). Unfortunately, it's hard to change that. Most films that give predatory animals significant focus cast them as antagonists and writing rules dictate that an antagonist must be as powerful as possible. This is doubly true if you write horror (which both JP and Jaws arguably are). Would anyone have been as scared by the Indominus had it lost to the Apatosauruses or at least avoided them? When herbivorous animals feature prominently at all, they are used in supporting roles (like transport) or as pets where they don't have to be as deadly. Isn't he the guy who was perpetuating the 7 meter Mapusaurus? Yep, that guy. 4: Monsters Resurrected was actually pretty accurate with Varanus priscus - they severely undersized it, but everything was correct. Having said that, their super-Amphicyon and Spinosaurus-on-steroids are very problematic. Hm, from what I remember (it's years since I watched it), it got more wrong than right. I remember stuff like a team of Rugops being a serious threat to their kaiju Spinosaurus, an Elasmosaurus' neck weighing two tons or owls being the closest living relatives of terror birds. 5: Apparently from what I heard on the Theropoda discord server, a lot of people still believe JP3 Spino. So it's standing quite well! That's surprising. Do they cite JP III as a source (like many do with COTD) or do they just believe in an animal very similar to the JP III Spino? |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 21:58:53 GMT 5
1: I bet you if you ask a bunch of random people you see (note: don't do that) who like dinosaurs at ALL, a sizeable amount will give T rex a good chance against Argentinosaurus or Sauroposeidon 1: That's true. There's a recurring theme of people overestimating the deadliness of predators. That's why people are surprised to learn that hippos kill more people than lions or that coconuts are more deadly than great white sharks (the latter misconception has tragic consequences). Unfortunately, it's hard to change that. Most films that give predatory animals significant focus cast them as antagonists and writing rules dictate that an antagonist must be as powerful as possible. This is doubly true if you write horror (which both JP and Jaws arguably are). Would anyone have been as scared by the Indominus had it lost to the Apatosauruses or at least avoided them? When herbivorous animals feature prominently at all, they are used in supporting roles (like transport) or as pets where they don't have to be as deadly. 4: Monsters Resurrected was actually pretty accurate with Varanus priscus - they severely undersized it, but everything was correct. Having said that, their super-Amphicyon and Spinosaurus-on-steroids are very problematic. 2: Hm, from what I remember (it's years since I watched it), it got more wrong than right. I remember stuff like a team of Rugops being a serious threat to their kaiju Spinosaurus, an Elasmosaurus' neck weighing two tons or owls being the closest living relatives of terror birds. 5: Apparently from what I heard on the Theropoda discord server, a lot of people still believe JP3 Spino. So it's standing quite well! 3: That's surprising. Do they cite JP III as a source (like many do with COTD) or do they just believe in an animal very similar to the JP III Spino? 1: Yeah, that's true. While it does make dino media more enjoyable for many, you REALLY get the brunt of it should you choose to go a bit more scientific. 2: WHAT!? I am going to have to rewatch those - I don't remember them going THAT cuckoo. 3: Yep, most of 'em know the series or have watched the movie. |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 22:13:17 GMT 5
1: Yeah, that's true. While it does make dino media more enjoyable for many, you REALLY get the brunt of it should you choose to go a bit more scientific. The alternative to making the predators too OP would be to cripple the protagonists. The original JP did that quite well with an employee sabotaging the park and the visitors being totally unprepared for the dino outbreak. Likewise, The Lost World-style plots can work quite well if the protagonists are cut off from the outside world and don't expect Dinos. Even then, overpowering the predators is sometimes necessary. I must confess using the "suicidally determined predator" trope at some point in The Senders myself, where a dune maw was not even deterred by having an eye injured by its prey (although that instance might have been slightly justified by my protagonist being a larger prey than the average desert animal and prey being rare in general). 3: Yep, most of 'em know the series or have watched the movie. Did they actually cite it as the source though like some people do it with COTD? |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 22:45:13 GMT 5
1: Yeah, that's true. While it does make dino media more enjoyable for many, you REALLY get the brunt of it should you choose to go a bit more scientific. 1: The alternative to making the predators too OP would be to cripple the protagonists. The original JP did that quite well with an employee sabotaging the park and the visitors being totally unprepared for the dino outbreak. Likewise, The Lost World-style plots can work quite well if the protagonists are cut off from the outside world and don't expect Dinos. Even then, overpowering the predators is sometimes necessary. I must confess using the "suicidally determined predator" trope at some point in The Senders myself, where a dune maw was not even deterred by having an eye injured by its prey (although that instance might have been slightly justified by my protagonist being a larger prey than the average desert animal and prey being rare in general). 3: Yep, most of 'em know the series or have watched the movie. 2: Did they actually cite it as the source though like some people do it with COTD? 1: It's very entertaining, I'll give it that. Just saying it has nasty side effects. 2: Some did, others cited the JP series |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 23:04:27 GMT 5
1: Eh, my point was not to justify the OP predator trope, but to show ways how to work around it (which admittedly take skill).
2: That's truly astounding. Sucks that I'm not on theropoda because I'd have to see this with my own eyes.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 23:13:57 GMT 5
1: Oh. They DID seem to manage it there, you're right
2: No, not members of Theropoda believing in JP3 Spino. They said they've met many people who still believe in it and reference the movie or the series
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 23:17:19 GMT 5
No, not members of Theropoda believing in JP3 Spino. They said they've met many people who still believe in it and reference the movie or the series Are these people active in AVA communities or is there any other reason why we should care for them though? |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 23:19:56 GMT 5
No, not members of Theropoda believing in JP3 Spino. They said they've met many people who still believe in it and reference the movie or the series Are these people active in AVA communities or is there any other reason why we should care for them though? Both AVA and scientific - predominantly on Scified I think, which is both |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 23:28:26 GMT 5
Eh, Scified seems more like a science fiction community than a scientific community to me. A scientific community would involve, you know, more scientists. It doesn't look like an AVA community at all to me either.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 20, 2019 23:45:53 GMT 5
I'm referring to the sci part of Scified, where Ceratodroeus has very seriously calculated dinosaur size and physiology as have others, and you have many fights written on Scified like Tarbosaurus vs Spinosaurus, Ekrixinatosaurus vs Kelmayisaurus, Giganotosaurus vs Therizinosaurus, and Siats vs Mapusaurus
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Post by creature386 on Nov 20, 2019 23:49:29 GMT 5
Hm, this forum is large and confusing, so I find no "sci" part. You mean their dinosaur subforum?
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Post by dinosauria101 on Nov 21, 2019 0:40:17 GMT 5
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