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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 17, 2020 5:02:21 GMT 5
As for attacking the rear? I don't think elephantids can kick backwards. Daily Mai, I know, but there is a video showing it is possible They can, but is it fast and/or mbile enough in close quarters to catch one of the tyrannosaurids? They have very high agility for theropods and likely experience with hit and run |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 17, 2020 5:23:07 GMT 5
Daily Mai, I know, but there is a video showing it is possible They can, but is it fast and/or mbile enough in close quarters to catch one of the tyrannosaurids? They have very high agility for theropods and likely experience with hit and run The fact that the Theropods are going to be getting close and making contact with said appendage means it is possible for the elephant to get one |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 17, 2020 5:30:13 GMT 5
They can, but is it fast and/or mbile enough in close quarters to catch one of the tyrannosaurids? They have very high agility for theropods and likely experience with hit and run The fact that the Theropods are going to be getting close and making contact with said appendage means it is possible for the elephant to get one Possible, yes. But not very likely. They're quite fast and agile for theropods in close quarters, and they can relatively easily stay out of range by attacking at an angle where kicking is impossible, not to mention the fact that there are 3 means they may cooperate. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 17, 2020 5:53:41 GMT 5
The fact that the Theropods are going to be getting close and making contact with said appendage means it is possible for the elephant to get one Possible, yes. But not very likely. They're quite fast and agile for theropods in close quarters, and they can relatively easily stay out of range by attacking at an angle where kicking is impossible, not to mention the fact that there are 3 means they may cooperate. I'd say it is likely-agility only gets you so far. They'd HAVE to get into striking distance to bite, and at that point the elephant can strike them. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 17, 2020 21:48:37 GMT 5
Possible, yes. But not very likely. They're quite fast and agile for theropods in close quarters, and they can relatively easily stay out of range by attacking at an angle where kicking is impossible, not to mention the fact that there are 3 means they may cooperate. I'd say it is likely-agility only gets you so far. They'd HAVE to get into striking distance to bite, and at that point the elephant can strike them. How fast can the elephant kick/flail/move to get within range? They're graviportal (not built for agility at all) meaning that the chances of it catching one are low. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 0:57:39 GMT 5
I'd say it is likely-agility only gets you so far. They'd HAVE to get into striking distance to bite, and at that point the elephant can strike them. How fast can the elephant kick/flail/move to get within range? They're graviportal (not built for agility at all) meaning that the chances of it catching one are low. For an animal of their size, they can move and react quite quickly. It's not going to catch one, it's going to reel them in. The dinosaurs will have to enter the Mammoth's playing field to strike, and there they are vulnerable. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 2:37:32 GMT 5
How fast can the elephant kick/flail/move to get within range? They're graviportal (not built for agility at all) meaning that the chances of it catching one are low. For an animal of their size, they can move and react quite quickly. It's not going to catch one, it's going to reel them in. The dinosaurs will have to enter the Mammoth's playing field to strike, and there they are vulnerable. They're not necessarily INvulnerable, but not necessarily to the extent you may think. The mammoth is not very dextrous aside from using its trunk, it lacks the ability for quick bursts of speed, and then there is the numbers. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 4:06:28 GMT 5
For an animal of their size, they can move and react quite quickly. It's not going to catch one, it's going to reel them in. The dinosaurs will have to enter the Mammoth's playing field to strike, and there they are vulnerable. They're not necessarily INvulnerable, but not necessarily to the extent you may think. The mammoth is not very dextrous aside from using its trunk, it lacks the ability for quick bursts of speed, and then there is the numbers. Seeing as they'll have to actually TOUCH the mammoth, and linger there for a little to drive their teeth in (as opposed to allosaurian slashing) they're exposing themselves to the mammoth's counterattack. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 4:54:55 GMT 5
They're not necessarily INvulnerable, but not necessarily to the extent you may think. The mammoth is not very dextrous aside from using its trunk, it lacks the ability for quick bursts of speed, and then there is the numbers. Seeing as they'll have to actually TOUCH the mammoth, and linger there for a little to drive their teeth in (as opposed to allosaurian slashing) they're exposing themselves to the mammoth's counterattack. Not necessarily - it won't take that much time at all. The teeth do have serrations, and they can use their strong neck muscles to aid in dealing damage. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 12:14:49 GMT 5
Seeing as they'll have to actually TOUCH the mammoth, and linger there for a little to drive their teeth in (as opposed to allosaurian slashing) they're exposing themselves to the mammoth's counterattack. Not necessarily - it won't take that much time at all. The teeth do have serrations, and they can use their strong neck muscles to aid in dealing damage. The issue is that they're biters, not slashers. The serrations are effective when sinking into flesh, not with slashing bites. It will take time. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 16:27:42 GMT 5
Not necessarily - it won't take that much time at all. The teeth do have serrations, and they can use their strong neck muscles to aid in dealing damage. The issue is that they're biters, not slashers. The serrations are effective when sinking into flesh, not with slashing bites. It will take time. Not all that much. Many crushers such as crocodiles, wolves and hyenas can quickly injure large prey, and they lack serrations fully. The tyrannosaurs would have an even easier time. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 21:57:23 GMT 5
The issue is that they're biters, not slashers. The serrations are effective when sinking into flesh, not with slashing bites. It will take time. Not all that much. Many crushers such as crocodiles, wolves and hyenas can quickly injure large prey, and they lack serrations fully. The tyrannosaurs would have an even easier time. The tyrannosaurs would never have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, and none of the prey your analogies hunt are equivalent to an elephant vs a dinosaur. The dinosaurs would have to be very careful, and the mammoth has the advantage of just needing to stand its ground. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 22:23:21 GMT 5
Not all that much. Many crushers such as crocodiles, wolves and hyenas can quickly injure large prey, and they lack serrations fully. The tyrannosaurs would have an even easier time. The tyrannosaurs would never have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, and none of the prey your analogies hunt are equivalent to an elephant vs a dinosaur. The dinosaurs would have to be very careful, and the mammoth has the advantage of just needing to stand its ground. While they may not necessarily have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, they did hunt ceratopsians, which would require a very similar strategy if not the same (hit and run) to a mammoth. The mammoth here can indeed stand its ground; how does it CATCH the dinosaurs however? It can't really kick or lunge after them fast enough. My analogy wasn't really as you described either; just to show the nature of the weapons. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 18, 2020 22:31:04 GMT 5
The tyrannosaurs would never have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, and none of the prey your analogies hunt are equivalent to an elephant vs a dinosaur. The dinosaurs would have to be very careful, and the mammoth has the advantage of just needing to stand its ground. While they may not necessarily have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, they did hunt ceratopsians, which would require a very similar strategy if not the same (hit and run) to a mammoth. The mammoth here can indeed stand its ground; how does it CATCH the dinosaurs however? It can't really kick or lunge after them fast enough. My analogy wasn't really as you described either; just to show the nature of the weapons. Or, you know, ambush the thing and crush its neck or spine. Daspletosaurus is certainly taller than most of its prey and could definitely rear higher than it (not "tripod-pose" mind you) to deliver a good bite. The mammoth can catch the dinosaur with kicks and lunges. The dinosaurs present a large target, and they have to close into the mammoth's strike zone to damage it. The mammoth has the advantage.
The nature of weapons when used against prey of equal or similar size. It's not a good analogy.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 18, 2020 23:35:39 GMT 5
While they may not necessarily have encountered prey as large as the mammoth, they did hunt ceratopsians, which would require a very similar strategy if not the same (hit and run) to a mammoth. The mammoth here can indeed stand its ground; how does it CATCH the dinosaurs however? It can't really kick or lunge after them fast enough. My analogy wasn't really as you described either; just to show the nature of the weapons. Or, you know, ambush the thing and crush its neck or spine. Daspletosaurus is certainly taller than most of its prey and could definitely rear higher than it (not "tripod-pose" mind you) to deliver a good bite. The mammoth can catch the dinosaur with kicks and lunges. The dinosaurs present a large target, and they have to close into the mammoth's strike zone to damage it. The mammoth has the advantage.
The nature of weapons when used against prey of equal or similar size. It's not a good analogy.
That's correct; ambush is the most common. However, if you're hunting prey like ceratopsians, you're bound to have knowledge of hit and run if the ambish fails and you desperately need to eat. Elephantids are not very dextrous or particularly fast, nor particularly specialized for close quarter kicks and lunges. The tyrannosaurids meanwhile will have a relatively easy time avoiding the attacks. As for my analogy: How come a hyena, with very blunt teeth, did this to a wildebeest then, with approximately the same size disparity and no serrations to boot?  |
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