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Post by creature386 on Dec 15, 2021 2:18:17 GMT 5
*Sees this post* Okay, it's quite long. Either this episode is full of inaccuracies or Infinity Blade is more nitpicky/motivated than usual. Or it's just him being that invested in saber-toothed cats. Not that I mind. A lot of my favorite documentary episodes are full of stuff that could be nitpicked. Let's see what this one has in store for us! - At this point, I think it’s questionable if any of the big apex predatory terror birds were left. There is a complete right tibiotarsus of a phorusrhacid similar to Phorusrhacos (but larger) known from the Raigón Formation of Uruguay (Tambussi et al., 1999). The Raigón Formation seems to span from the Pliocene to well into the Middle Pleistocene (now called the Chibanian) (Ubilla & Martin, 2013). Judging from Fig. 2 of Tambussi et al. (1999), it looks like this phorusrhacid bone was found in the lower layers of the Raigón Formation, though definitely not the lowermost one, so I’m not sure exactly how old it is.
Yeah, Phorusrhacos is among the most extreme cases of misplaced wildlife in this show so far. At the very least, the option of mentally replacing it with Titanis is there (which would still be misplaced, but it's at least possible to suspend disbelief there a little; no possible amount of willing suspension of disbelief survives 12 million years as with Phorusrhacos). According to TVTropes at least, this error is based on the old ideas according to which Titanis was a synonym of Phorusrhacos (or, at least WWB's producers thought so for some reason, which they supposedly explained in supplementary material). The Walking With Wiki makes this synonym claim, too ( link), although the source given is Prehistoric Wildlife... - However, something I found interesting (by overanalyzing the scene like the fanatic I am) is that during the fight, it was really only one of the two brothers physically engaging with Half-Tooth. The other brother just kinda circled around the fight, but later stood next to his brother to face Half-Tooth, roaring at him; it’s at this point where Half-Tooth loses the battle. Later the episode explicitly tells us that one brother was dominant. Maybe the brother doing the real fighting here was the dominant one, while the other brother acted more as support to ensure Half-Tooth’s defeat. If so, that was a brilliant decision on the writers’ part…yay, more stuff to put into the show’s TVTropes page.
Oh yeah. You're Kryptopithecus, I assume? I'm Auraptor and I for some reason still haven't put my idea of the Torvosaurus being Broken Jaws Shadow Counterpart on the Dinosaur Revolution character page yet... Well, we all gotta take our time. - I’m not entirely sure if the lion-like sociality is likely for Smilodon, based on sexual dimorphism. While it’s debatable how much sexual dimorphism Smilodon had, even those who argue for it only seem to think it was low or moderate, compared to the strong dimorphism seen in modern lions (Christiansen & Harris, 2012).
Yeah, we might have a problem similar to the mating behavior of DR's Cryolophosauruses. Lions are used as a model where they probably don't work, although the lion behavior here is at least far more consistent and well-portrayed than in the Cryos. A more realistic depiction might show them closer to wolf packs, but then we wouldn't have this beautiful storyline. - Sorry for the short rant, I’m just frustrated by this myth about terror birds.
No need to be sorry. I believe many of us felt that way when watching the episode. (Okay, two of us, at least. Three, if we count theropod, IIRC.) After reading this review, the episode is basically just like how I remember it. Quite a few inaccuracies, but still so good that I couldn't care less. I admit, I forgot about most of the storyline, so, I was a bit surprised to find out that it shared a lot more similarities with Death of a Dynasty than just the focus on a famous prehistoric apex predator. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 15, 2021 8:33:49 GMT 5
*Sees this post* Okay, it's quite long. Either this episode is full of inaccuracies or Infinity Blade is more nitpicky/motivated than usual. Or it's just him being that invested in saber-toothed cats. I think I was a bit nitpicky in some ways (for example, about the second point you quoted), but when I wrote this review I was a little surprised to find how relatively inaccuracy-heavy it was. Yeah, Phorusrhacos is among the most extreme cases of misplaced wildlife in this show so far. At the very least, the option of mentally replacing it with Titanis is there (which would still be misplaced, but it's at least possible to suspend disbelief there a little; no possible amount of willing suspension of disbelief survives 12 million years as with Phorusrhacos). According to TVTropes at least, this error is based on the old ideas according to which Titanis was a synonym of Phorusrhacos (or, at least WWB's producers thought so for some reason, which they supposedly explained in supplementary material). The Walking With Wiki makes this synonym claim, too ( link), although the source given is Prehistoric Wildlife... Hmm. I looked up Wikipedia to see if Titanis was ever seen as a synonym of Phorusrhacos (since Wikipedia tends to list this kind of info), but it doesn't say anything about that. I went to the Paleobiology Database too, but they don't seem to suggest so either. Well, anyway... Oh yeah. You're Kryptopithecus, I assume? I'm Auraptor and I for some reason still haven't put my idea of the Torvosaurus being Broken Jaws Shadow Counterpart on the Dinosaur Revolution character page yet... Well, we all gotta take our time. That's right! I forgot you were on TVTropes too (which is funny because I'm pretty sure I basically learned about TVTropes from you). No need to be sorry. I believe many of us felt that way when watching the episode. (Okay, two of us, at least. Three, if we count theropod, IIRC.) I remember when theropod was trying to demonstrate how formidable a terror bird was to everyone on Carnivora (e.g. the Smilodon vs Kelenken thread). People kept saying "mismatch is birb Smilodon winz easily" (I was guilty of that too, but that was just me hopping onto the bandwagon as a stupid teenager). I understand his pain now. Luckily the paleo communities I'm on seem to generally understand what was really going on with terror birds and carnivorans (and how unfounded a lot of the classic paleontological examples of "outcompetition" actually are). |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 20, 2021 10:48:39 GMT 5
Mammoth Journey (Europe, 30,000 years ago): - This is it folks. The mammoth, the myth, the legend.
- A minute in and an animal is already f*cked. Oof.
- The portrayal of the mammoths as having strong enough social bonds to comfort their trapped herd member is really nice. It sounds like a very elephant thing to do. Unfortunately, the herd is forced to abandon the trapped mammoth to die a potentially slow death. As the orchestral mammoth theme ends with a brief idyllic bit (very beautiful might I add) as “Mammoth Journey” pops up on the screen…the trapped mammoth is slowly dying, watching her herd members who she’s likely been with for years leave her. The contrast is jarring, but nicely executed.
- Oh look, it’s Homo sapiens (the ones we call Cro-Magnons). There are, however, a couple things I need to make mention of. First, Branagh says that they specialize in small prey, but they’re briefly seen chasing some Megaloceros. Does that really count as “small prey”? I know the narration says that they “rarely” hunt mammoths (meaning that they do, just not often), but humans have been able to kill large elephants for hundreds of thousands of years by this point (see here-> for an example); were mega-mammals really rare prey? Second, these humans are light-skinned. It is to my understanding that light skin in Europeans originated from a carrier in the Middle East who lived 28-22 kya. The humans who arrived in Europe from the Near East 42 kya would have been dark skinned, although many of them would have had blue eyes (Hanel & Carlberg, 2020). Of course, these discoveries were only made relatively recently, so I don’t fault WWB for their portrayal of Cro-Magnons here.
- I don’t think the term “ice age” is used entirely correctly here. What I think Branagh is referring to is the fluctuation between glacial and interglacial periods, where ice expands and retreats, respectively. While we have a tendency to refer to the “ice age” as a past time period, interglacials are still part of an ice age by virtue of the fact that polar ice caps still exist (just not at their greatest extent). This means that we’re technically living in an ice age (although sadly, we’re also in the process of ****ing that up by warming up the climate).
- Those Megaloceros need to take it easy. They clash violently and seem to be pushing each other with a lot of force. A recent study using finite element analysis (FEA) models found that the giant deer was indeed capable of using its antlers for combat with members of its own species. However, this was only the case if the antlers interlocked at their proximal (i.e. towards the base) ends, and if they were twisting with their antlers rather than pushing. This suggests fighting was far more predictable and constrained in this species than in modern deer (Klinkhammer et al., 2019).
- Imma just say, the Megaloceros jumping over the Cro-Magnon is pretty badass.
- Nevertheless, the other Megaloceros is trapped near the trees and speared to death.
The narrator mentions scavengers like wolves, lions, and hyenas, the last of which we never see (but hear) in this episode. Oh, if we realized just how badass cave hyenas were back then. In the mammoth steppe, when the climate wasn’t too harsh for them, they were the dominant predators of the region, outcompeting cave lions, wolves, and even Neanderthals (Bocherens et al., 2015). - The mammoth calf’s struggles are made apparent, and in my opinion this is when you most realize the hardship the mammoths have to endure.
- Okay so, the cave lion is just wrong. First, it seems to be a reskin of the Dinofelis from episode 4, only with a longer tail. What that means, though, is that it keeps the saber teeth of the Dinofelis from that episode. Also, while I can obviously see why they made the cave lion’s fur snow white here, we know that cave lions had light yellowish fur based on preserved cave lion hair (Chernova et al., 2016) and preserved cave lion cub mummies. While these discoveries were much more recent than WWB’s airing, I remember even years ago people criticizing the fur color of the cave lion in this doc. I’ll give it the short/barely noticeable mane, though.
One other thing that I’d like to talk about is the cave lion’s prey choice. As I’ve mentioned above, whenever cave hyenas were present, they were the dominant predators, outcompeting other large predators and having their diet comprised of approximately equal proportions of different prey species. Whenever cave hyenas were present (like in late Pleistocene Belgium, which this episode happens to be in), cave lions strongly focused on reindeer, whereas mammoth made up very little of their diet in comparison. It’s only when cave hyenas were extirpated that cave lions were able to try their hand at other prey and have more cave hyena-like diets (although, even then grey wolves outcompeted them) (Bocherens et al., 2015).
Of course, I’m not tearing my hair out that they depict a cave lion stalking a mammoth calf, since that’s not impossible. I just wanted to note that reindeer would realistically be this cave lion’s preferred prey. A clan of cave hyenas would be more likely to trail after the calf and his mother. - A couple cave lions are feasting on an unlucky human. No particular sad music or anything of the sorts that we see a dead human. Just a human. That’s all. It’s interesting how WWB just treats H. sapiens like any other animal in this documentary.
- ”The lions will have to let him pass. Nothing gets in the way of a mammoth migrating.”
In other words…-> - The hundreds of mammoths walking in the distance under the orange sky is really great.
- We are introduced to the Neanderthal and the woolly rhinoceros. His body language when he turns to face the rhino says it all.
- And of course, the Neanderthal is lucky as shit to survive the attack.
- Once the mammoths make it to their winter destination, as well as reunite with the mother and her calf, arguably the worst conflict of this episode is dealt with. But interestingly, their problems don’t quite end here, as we’ll see later on.
- Wait a second, wasn’t the male calf born the year before, given that this is his first winter? And now his mother has given birth to a little sister. Doesn’t seem to fit well with elephant gestation.
- Haha mud go splish splash.
- Another great shot of the mammoth migration is the one where they’re heading towards the camera with the spring vegetation visible in the background.
- The mammoth theme takes a darker tone as the Neanderthals begin their hunt. I first saw the ensuing hunt in black in white when I was a little kid, watching a bit of WWB from the Discovery Channel under different narration. I must say, it left quite an impression on me even to this day. The shrieks the Neanderthals sometimes make, and the extra dramatic music that plays whenever a mammoth falls off a cliff, really sells it.
If the Australopithecus from episode 4 could see their descendants now, they’d either be very proud or very frightened. - As cool as this fight is, though, it no longer appears to have scientific support. It is now considered unlikely that these big elephants would intentionally walk over rocky, steep terrain, as their modern cousins are known to do so. There’s also evidence for burnt bone in the bone pile, suggesting the Neanderthals were using them after the animals had died. So it is considered more likely that instead of driving mammoths off cliffs, Neanderthals killed mammoths individually and brought their remains back to the bottom of the cliffs (Scott et al., 2014).
- One last thing about Neanderthals that I decided to save for here, since it’s this point where Branagh addresses Neanderthal extinction. At the time, it was thought that Neanderthals disappeared about 30 kya. This has since been revised to ~40 kya (Higham et al., 2014), with some evidence suggesting survival as late as 37 kya (Zilhão et al., 2017). Therefore, by the time this episode takes place, Neanderthals should already be extinct. As for the cause, I’ve seen one recent paper argue that inbreeding within Neanderthals, along with the Allee effect and random variables would have been enough to drive them to extinction, even if they were cognitively equal to H. sapiens and did not compete with them (Vaesen et al., 2019). I know at least one recent paper that still argues for competitive exclusion by modern humans (Timmermann, 2020). However, I am far from an expert on this subject.
- We get a nice transition from the Cro-Magnon carving a mammoth figure in the Pleistocene to the present day, where that same figure is displayed in a museum. As this happens, we get this gem: ”One day, they’ll look back…on all this. We have since built museums to celebrate the past, and spent decades studying prehistoric lives. And if all this has taught us anything, it’s this: no species lasts forever”.
The way I see it, this isn’t just the end to all the episodes, but to the entire Trilogy of Life. Imagine watching Walking with Monsters, Walking with Dinosaurs, and Walking with Beasts in sequential order, only to end on this note. It’s wonderful, but it’s also poignant. Because now, you’re reminded that all of the magnificent beasts you’ve spent six episodes looking at with awe (or three entire documentaries, if you were to do what I described above) are now gone forever. From small Leptictidium to mighty Paraceratherium – hell, from the strange Anomalocaris to the magnificent woolly mammoth – the world will never see them again. And eventually, the same will happen to us.
Final verdict:"Mammoth Journey" is interesting in that while we are introduced to arguably the biggest conflict of the episode early on (surviving the migration), said conflict is not the last issue of the episode. The Neanderthals turn out to be the last major obstacle for the mammoths’ survival. Lo and behold, they turn out to be formidable enough to kill a few of the mammoths, including the matriarch. There are some things that don’t hold up scientifically today, but as is the case with literally every other episode here, a lot of that can be chalked up to science marching on. Perhaps the one exception was the depiction of the cave lion, which is literally just a Dinofelis reskin with a longer tail. The animals are all presented in ways that makes their depictions memorable. I’m not saying the other episodes didn’t do a good job at this, but all the prehistoric animals of note in this episode got at least one moment where it was clear just what they do, and in my opinion this episode pulled this off the best (if you disagree with my opinion, by all means argue against it; I’m not exactly an experienced reviewer, after all). There is, of course, the mammoth migration. But there’s also the Megaloceros fight before they just become prey for the Cro-Magnons (and even then one of them does something really badass). There’s the Cro-Magnon hunt, the woolly rhino charging the Neanderthal, the cave lion stalking the mammoths and being a man-eater, and the Neanderthal hunt. And then there’s the ending. Hoooo boy, that golden ending. I’ve already explained why the ending is so amazing.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 20, 2021 10:50:29 GMT 5
Overall verdict: Image sourceThe producers of WWB originally wanted to create a series about Cenozoic animals first. This was cast aside in favor of a dinosaur-centric documentary, as it was believed that such a series would be more successful, given the popularity of dinosaurs relative to prehistoric mammals ( link). As a result, we got Walking with Dinosaurs in 1999 first, which proved successful enough for Walking with Beasts to be greenlit. I’d imagine that, as a sequel to a show that featured an overall more famous cast of animals, WWB had a big task ahead of itself. That task was to live up to WWD. I can’t not compare it to its predecessor here. So, did WWB rival WWD? Did it create a documentary that featured Cenozoic fauna as wonderfully as its predecessor did on dinosaurs? In my opinion, yes. Definitely. Like WWD before it, WWB is able to give us compelling stories involving prehistoric fauna in the style of a nature documentary, just as it intended. Animals have their own story arcs, and their conflicts and struggles are made clear, some to even greater levels than others. These prehistoric mammals and birds are largely portrayed with realistic mannerisms, even if many depictions of their behavior and function have become outdated in the last two decades. But while I’ve just spent two paragraphs comparing WWB to WWD, this does not mean that WWB fails to stand out in its own right. Kenneth Branagh once again nails his role as the narrator, the animals look real, and the presentation is dramatic. If you’re someone who has just learned that WWB is a thing and is a sequel to WWD, please know this: WWB is by no stretch of the imagination some inferior spin-off. It is every bit as great as its predecessor. In fact, if I were to completely ignore its predecessor and all subsequent installments in this entire series, it would probably still hold its place in my heart as my favorite paleontology documentary of all time (inaccuracies notwithstanding). Yes, despite the fact that dinosaurs aren’t its main focus. Which brings me to my last point. If you need any persuasion that the Cenozoic’s bestiary can be just as cool as the Mesozoic’s, this two decade-old documentary is probably still your best bet at being convinced. And this is coming from a guy whose first love in paleontology was the dinosaurs. I still prefer the Mesozoic’s reptiles marginally. I roll my eyes so hard they fall out of their sockets whenever I come across people who think mammals are somehow inherently “better” (whatever the hell that means). I get really f*cking annoyed by repeated overgeneralization of all dinosaurs as overrated (it’s really only a handful of select taxa that are legitimately popular). Hell, I literally went on a short rant about how one of the dinosaurs in this program was portrayed. Now, I’m aware that what’s cool and what isn’t is ultimately subjective. If you’re a dinosaur fan with complete apathy for prehistoric mammals, that’s your opinion and you’re fully entitled to it. But give this documentary a go if you haven’t already. Less for its scientific value these days, and more for its presentation of Cenozoic vertebrate fauna. I think there’s a very high chance you’ll like it, and who knows? Maybe it’ll be your gateway to Cenozoic life.
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Post by creature386 on Dec 21, 2021 21:20:00 GMT 5
Aaaaand, so it ends. What can I say in closing? - Oh look, it’s Homo sapiens (the ones we call Cro-Magnons). There are, however, a couple things I need to make mention of. First, Branagh says that they specialize in small prey, but they’re briefly seen chasing some Megaloceros. Does that really count as “small prey”? I know the narration says that they “rarely” hunt mammoths (meaning that they do, just not often), but humans have been able to kill large elephants for hundreds of thousands of years by this point (see here-> for an example); were mega-mammals really rare prey?
Plus, we know that at least the Eastern European Gravettians (which is the early European human culture coinciding with this episode's temporal setting) were specialized mammoth hunters ( link). Of course, it's not clear if the same applied to the Western European ones as well, but I'm definitely curious where WWB got that idea from. (Not that I'm a HFY person or anything, more on that below) - I don’t think the term “ice age” is used entirely correctly here. What I think Branagh is referring to is the fluctuation between glacial and interglacial periods, where ice expands and retreats, respectively. While we have a tendency to refer to the “ice age” as a past time period, interglacials are still part of an ice age by virtue of the fact that polar ice caps still exist (just not at their greatest extent). This means that we’re technically living in an ice age (although sadly, we’re also in the process of ****ing that up by warming up the climate).
That reminds me of when I was in elementary school and when I wondered if the fact that we technically still live in an Ice Age meant global warming would be cancelled out once the planet naturally cooled down again. Back then, I didn't realize that anthropogenic global warming is a whole different league in terms of pace than natural global warming. (Though, to be fair, many people don't realize this which is probably why this whole "The Earth has always been warming" argument is so popular). Yes, I just went on a tangent, back to the main course. - Okay so, the cave lion is just wrong. First, it seems to be a reskin of the Dinofelis from episode 4, only with a longer tail. What that means, though, is that it keeps the saber teeth of the Dinofelis from that episode. Also, while I can obviously see why they made the cave lion’s fur snow white here, we know that cave lions had light yellowish fur based on preserved cave lion hair (Chernova et al., 2016) and preserved cave lion cub mummies. While these discoveries were much more recent than WWB’s airing, I remember even years ago people criticizing the fur color of the cave lion in this doc. I’ll give it the short/barely noticeable mane, though.
Makes me wonder if they could have replaced it with Homeotherium which we know to have existed near the North Sea ca. 28,000 years ago ( link). Plus, I'm not aware of hard evidence on Homotherium's fur color. At least one Scientific American author believes it had "inconspicuous colors" ( link), making the white fur excusable. Not to mention that a Dinofelis reskin would be much more excusable than with a cave lion. - A couple cave lions are feasting on an unlucky human. No particular sad music or anything of the sorts that we see a dead human. Just a human. That’s all. It’s interesting how WWB just treats H. sapiens like any other animal in this documentary.
- We get a nice transition from the Cro-Magnon carving a mammoth figure in the Pleistocene to the present day, where that same figure is displayed in a museum. As this happens, we get this gem: ”One day, they’ll look back…on all this. We have since built museums to celebrate the past, and spent decades studying prehistoric lives. And if all this has taught us anything, it’s this: no species lasts forever”.
The way I see it, this isn’t just the end to all the episodes, but to the entire Trilogy of Life. Imagine watching Walking with Monsters, Walking with Dinosaurs, and Walking with Beasts in sequential order, only to end on this note. It’s wonderful, but it’s also poignant. Because now, you’re reminded that all of the magnificent beasts you’ve spent six episodes looking at with awe (or three entire documentaries, if you were to do what I described above) are now gone forever. From small Leptictidium to mighty Paraceratherium – hell, from the strange Anomalocaris to the magnificent woolly mammoth – the world will never see them again. And eventually, the same will happen to us.
I believe this is a good topic for me to end my response on. As TVTropes put it, "Humans Are Average" is the central theme of the entire Walking With... series arguably, and it's driven home here. While there is a little human downplaying here (as we discussed with the "small prey" thing here), they are not portrayed as monsters nor hypercompetent demigods nor are they even the "Jack-of-All Trades" as which sci-fi/fantasy likes to portray them as (which is just another way of being special). This notion of humans being just another animal has been very formative in my childhood. I even sorta incorporated it in my then-religious beliefs on how animals have souls as well and I rejected the idea of God looking like a human.
Funnily enough, when I grew older and less religious, I got progressively more into sci-fi/fantasy and transhumanism. In those circles, there's something that SpaceBattles calls "HFY" and that the AVA community might call "human supremacy" or "human chauvinism". Basically, the idea that our intellect, our diversity, our inventiveness, our "determination" or whatever makes us so special that we can easily exterminate any species in our path (including sapient high-tech aliens in HFY-heavy sci-fi) and that we can even avoid our deaths/extinction due to how special we are.
There's also the inverse, seeing humans as complete and total monsters as the environmentalist movement often does it, (Even though it has been correctly pointed out that many species would have destroyed the planet far faster had they swapped places with us) or exaggerating our insignifigance to the point of parody (*cough* cosmic horror *cough*).
Basically, what I'm saying, it's just great that there's a popular franchise that doesn't dip into either of these extremes. Understanding our place in nature might very well be why (vertebrate) paleontology and evolutionary biology do matter, after all.
Why does this sound so much more cheesy than I intended it to? Sorry, I just had to let my mind bleed onto the page for a while
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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 22, 2021 1:14:40 GMT 5
Aaaaand, so it ends. What can I say in closing? I might be able to milk this for just a bit longer by looking at Triumph of the Beasts and The Beasts Within (which are basically the making of WWB+a more traditional documentary style). Of course, there's probably not going to be as much to say on those. Plus, we know that at least the Eastern European Gravettians (which is the early European human culture coinciding with this episode's temporal setting) were specialized mammoth hunters I genuinely did not know that. Nice share. Funnily enough, when I grew older and less religious, I got progressively more into sci-fi/fantasy and transhumanism. In those circles, there's something that SpaceBattles calls "HFY" and that the AVA community might call "human supremacy" or "human chauvinism". Basically, the idea that our intellect, our diversity, our inventiveness, our "determination" or whatever makes us so special that we can easily exterminate any species in our path (including sapient high-tech aliens in HFY-heavy sci-fi) and that we can even avoid our deaths/extinction due to how special we are. Yeah, I've come across people who genuinely believed that humans would pretty much never go extinct. Nowadays here I am, wondering what the worst climate change could do to us is... Basically, what I'm saying, it's just great that there's a popular franchise that doesn't dip into either of these extremes. Understanding our place in nature might very well be why (vertebrate) paleontology and evolutionary biology do matter, after all. " ...if you didn’t know history, you didn’t know anything. You were a leaf that didn’t know it was part of a tree." -Michael Crichton, Timeline |
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Yeah, Phorusrhacos is among the most extreme cases of misplaced wildlife in this show so far. At the very least, the option of mentally replacing it with Titanis is there (which would still be misplaced, but it's at least possible to suspend disbelief there a little; no possible amount of willing suspension of disbelief survives 12 million years as with Phorusrhacos). According to TVTropes at least, this error is based on the old ideas according to which Titanis was a synonym of Phorusrhacos (or, at least WWB's producers thought so for some reason, which they supposedly explained in supplementary material). The Walking With Wiki makes this synonym claim, too (link), although the source given is Prehistoric Wildlife...
