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Post by Exalt on Oct 21, 2023 20:31:12 GMT 5
I suppose that David Attenborough isn't as sharp-sounding as he used to be, but people love his work, so as long as he's willing and capable, we will likely still hear from him.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 23, 2023 17:53:00 GMT 5
On Discord, I heard SpinoInWonderland isn't watching because the apparent mammal chauvinism killed his interest - like with dozens of other viewers on Reddit and Twitter and such. I might as well make the best of it. Because I'm watching LOOP to be entertained instead of educated, and if nobody else will enjoy the mammal chauvinism, I might as well see how entertaining I find LOOP's take on it!  |
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Post by zoograph on Oct 23, 2023 18:29:11 GMT 5
Lol? If that's true, then it would be weird that mammals are only featured in 2/3 of these episodes, but ok. As I said earlier, unlike many others, I have some hype for mammals. They are awesome much like other animals and seem to be overlooked in most prehistoric media (aside from Pleistocene ofc).
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 23, 2023 19:37:26 GMT 5
Lol? If that's true, then it would be weird that mammals are only featured in 2/3 of these episodes, but ok. As I said earlier, unlike many others, I have some hype for mammals. They are awesome much like other animals and seem to be overlooked in most prehistoric media (aside from Pleistocene ofc). I have the mammal hype too: that's my inner (and, well, outer) WWB fan talking! Great minds think alike. Not to mention that aside from Forgotten Bloodlines (which isn't out yet) and perhaps Wild New World (which I haven't seen and would very much like to!) we don't really get anything substantial on prehistoric mammals - even Pleistocene ones - in shows outside WWB (edit: and Prehistoric Park!). The vast, vast, vast majority of their screentime is reused brief CGI clips in talking-head shows like Prehistoric Predators and Ice Age Giants - Life On Our Planet's chance to change that has me more excited than can be put into words. So I would concur with you that they seem to be overlooked in prehistoric media that gives animals a good look beyond being brief CGI for talking head narratives. What I was referring to was that someone on Discord said this: "I’ve heard that it goes for a proper superior species narrative, with each lineage being better than the last and such". And considering it culminates in the Cenozoic, the Age of Mammals, a mammal chauvinism narrative would in no way be contradicted by not all the episodes having mammals. It also might be what the Smilodon and terror bird scene does, considering the concern of so many people about it doing just that. Keep in mind, though, that I deliberately did not read most of your comment to avoid spoiler risk. So if I missed stuff it will remain that way until I see all the episodes and can read your comment in full. By the way, are you on SpinoInWonderland's Discord server? You don't have to join if you don't want to but I highly recommend it: besides there being some more palaeodocumentary discussion, it helps with the context of Discord references in comments. discord.com/invite/ZuEMynM |
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Post by Exalt on Oct 23, 2023 20:47:10 GMT 5
Here's my one confusion about the Smilodon and Titanis stuff: the two Titanis might have been confrontational, whereas the Smilodon are clearly working together.
Additionally, Prehistoric Planet has the Quetzalcoatlus vs. T.rex scene, and in real life, there are cases like wolverines getting bears to leave. Both of those have the victorious species being far more outweighed than S.gracilis here.
Did WWB and Prehistoric Park hurt people that much?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Oct 23, 2023 23:17:16 GMT 5
Lol? If that's true, then it would be weird that mammals are only featured in 2/3 of these episodes, but ok. As I said earlier, unlike many others, I have some hype for mammals. They are awesome much like other animals and seem to be overlooked in most prehistoric media (aside from Pleistocene ofc). I have the mammal hype too: that's my inner (and, well, outer) WWB fan talking! Great minds think alike. Not to mention that aside from Forgotten Bloodlines (which isn't out yet) and perhaps Wild New World (which I haven't seen and would very much like to!) we don't really get anything substantial on prehistoric mammals - even Pleistocene ones - in shows outside WWB (edit: and Prehistoric Park!). The vast, vast, vast majority of their screentime is reused brief CGI clips in talking-head shows like Prehistoric Predators and Ice Age Giants - Life On Our Planet's chance to change that has me more excited than can be put into words. So I would concur with you that they seem to be overlooked in prehistoric media that gives animals a good look beyond being brief CGI for talking head narratives. What I was referring to was that someone on Discord said this: "I’ve heard that it goes for a proper superior species narrative, with each lineage being better than the last and such". And considering it culminates in the Cenozoic, the Age of Mammals, a mammal chauvinism narrative would in no way be contradicted by not all the episodes having mammals. It also might be what the Smilodon and terror bird scene does, considering the concern of so many people about it doing just that.Keep in mind, though, that I deliberately did not read most of your comment to avoid spoiler risk. So if I missed stuff it will remain that way until I see all the episodes and can read your comment in full. By the way, are you on SpinoInWonderland's Discord server? You don't have to join if you don't want to but I highly recommend it: besides there being some more palaeodocumentary discussion, it helps with the context of Discord references in comments. discord.com/invite/ZuEMynMI was going to reply to zoograph's comment with this. Now for the record, I don't think we can say with 100% confidence that the show is going to have a chauvinistic narrative favoring mammals. The only real thing I can think of where they might actually act that way is the Smilodon- Titanis segment. Recently, someone on Twitter posted footage of a LOOP advertisement in the form of a digital animated billboard. It features two Titanis being driven away by a charging Smilodon. That doesn't give me confidence, but in and of itself I don't think it's conclusive proof that they will depict terror birds unfairly. However, the only episodes mammals realistically couldn't be in would be the ones set during times when they literally weren't even alive at all. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not biased towards mammals. In fact, you couldn't ask for better representation of an entire group of animals than coverage of its entire evolutionary history. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 24, 2023 3:16:58 GMT 5
I have the mammal hype too: that's my inner (and, well, outer) WWB fan talking! Great minds think alike. Not to mention that aside from Forgotten Bloodlines (which isn't out yet) and perhaps Wild New World (which I haven't seen and would very much like to!) we don't really get anything substantial on prehistoric mammals - even Pleistocene ones - in shows outside WWB (edit: and Prehistoric Park!). The vast, vast, vast majority of their screentime is reused brief CGI clips in talking-head shows like Prehistoric Predators and Ice Age Giants - Life On Our Planet's chance to change that has me more excited than can be put into words. So I would concur with you that they seem to be overlooked in prehistoric media that gives animals a good look beyond being brief CGI for talking head narratives. What I was referring to was that someone on Discord said this: "I’ve heard that it goes for a proper superior species narrative, with each lineage being better than the last and such". And considering it culminates in the Cenozoic, the Age of Mammals, a mammal chauvinism narrative would in no way be contradicted by not all the episodes having mammals. It also might be what the Smilodon and terror bird scene does, considering the concern of so many people about it doing just that.Keep in mind, though, that I deliberately did not read most of your comment to avoid spoiler risk. So if I missed stuff it will remain that way until I see all the episodes and can read your comment in full. By the way, are you on SpinoInWonderland's Discord server? You don't have to join if you don't want to but I highly recommend it: besides there being some more palaeodocumentary discussion, it helps with the context of Discord references in comments. discord.com/invite/ZuEMynMI was going to reply to zoograph's comment with this. Now for the record, I don't think we can say with 100% confidence that the show is going to have a chauvinistic narrative favoring mammals. The only real thing I can think of where they might actually act that way is the Smilodon- Titanis segment. Recently, someone on Twitter posted footage of a LOOP advertisement in the form of a digital animated billboard. It features two Titanis being driven away by a charging Smilodon. That doesn't give me confidence, but in and of itself I don't think it's conclusive proof that they will depict terror birds unfairly. However, the only episodes mammals realistically couldn't be in would be the ones set during times when they literally weren't even alive at all. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not biased towards mammals. In fact, you couldn't ask for better representation of an entire group of animals than coverage of its entire evolutionary history. TBH, the primary impression I always got from the chauvinistic narrative term was that the mammals would be presented as the 'most evolved and therefore best' animals by whatever logic the show uses. It's because of the better than the last statement in the quote. My reference to the Smilodon/Titanis scene was simply speculation as to whether they would have used it to complement their narrative. Agreed, though, that the ad doesn't necessarily mean anything bad - it doesn't mean that's going to happen at least. An example is a WWB promo image with a Doedicurus and Phorusrhacos fighting, yet they did not interact in the actual show, and it may well be the same here. If nothing else, I would agree that LOOP's episodes paint as good an image as possible of mammal evolution timewise as can be asked for. Whether that means mammal bias or not: well, we have less than one and a half days left! Edit: 11 pages now and I would not rule out 12 before LOOP is out! LOL. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 24, 2023 3:22:05 GMT 5
Did WWB and Prehistoric Park hurt people that much? Forgot to reply to this! I would suspect so: it's easily one of the biggest complaints about the shows. If I had to guess I would think the fact that they apparently were so inaccurate with their Smilodon/terror bird narrative gave a general aversion to Smilodon scaring terror birds, etc, regardless of how plausible it would actually be. Wouldn't surprise me either considering it's analogous to other situations in palaeontology and whatnot. |
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Post by Exalt on Oct 24, 2023 3:31:00 GMT 5
So it's interesting that this subject as come up, as this has dropped, and in it, T.rex is referred to as the greatest and the ultimate predator.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 24, 2023 4:39:43 GMT 5
I have deliberately refrained from watching that clip because I don't want to spoil it for myself, but it's a clip about T. rex. Even for a high end documentary it might be unwise to not expect the usual overhyping that is par the course (greatest, ultimate predator? Come on, how is that not hype?) for T. rex.
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Post by Exalt on Oct 24, 2023 4:46:22 GMT 5
I get it, just odd timing, and dinosaurs occupy a lot of the space in this kind of thing usually.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 25, 2023 6:55:44 GMT 5
Some news in from Discord: SpinoInWonderland said this about LOOP. "Some news in: LOOP really went "Triceratops cannot fight an adult Tyrannosaurus"" As I said in the channel, I will find out for better or for worse what this is like in the episode's full context tomorrow. The best I can hope for is that it will not be unwatchable......but really, what were they thinking? Not even COTD was that stupid.  |
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Post by Supercommunist on Oct 25, 2023 11:15:27 GMT 5
I don't agree the with the notion that triceratops couldn't fight an adult t-rex but there is a decent amount of documentaries that claimed triceratops would have usually beaten a tyrannosaurus in a serious fight more often than not, and I actually find that claim to be less realistic given that predators tend to have a large edge at parity.
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Post by tyrannasorus on Oct 25, 2023 13:28:49 GMT 5
I don’t know how well that would apply when both predator and prey are extremely large and are both geared for combat against one another
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Post by theropod on Oct 25, 2023 21:08:00 GMT 5
Weeeellll… spoilers for ep 1 From watching the first episode, unfortunately our hopes of it not being a "mammal superiority over terror birds"-kind of thing were unwarranted. The terror bird went down and was killed by the Smilodon ridiculously easily and quickly, especially considering it looked to have a rather significant size advantage. I get that they were sort of going for a "big cat brings down large ratite" sort of thing, but applying that analogy here is frankly ridiculous, and there was barely any struggle. In general I think modern paleo documentaries suffer a bit from the "large prey dies way too easily"-syndrome, thinking also of the T. rex/Edmontosaurus and Nanuqsaurus/Pachyrhinosaurus hunting scenes in PP. I’ll grant you that a sabre-tooth should be able to kill more quickly than a pantherine, due to its sabres, but it being able to fully control its adversary this quickly and with this little struggle, in order to bring its teeth to bear within few seconds, is not very realistic. |
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