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Post by creature386 on Feb 17, 2014 22:28:49 GMT 5
They completely unaccounted for the keratin covering that would make the claw twice as long when the animal was alive... This has nothing to do with length. Longer claws don't automatically cut easier through meat. Although keratin certainly helps in sharpening the claws, so I can see your point. However, I actually doubt the claws would have been twice as long with keratin: 1. Keratin does not always enlarge weapons by a lot, here you have cat claws without keratin:  Source: www.maxshouse.com/Truth%20About%20Declawing.htm2. Too long claws could become impractical. |
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blaze
Paleo-artist 
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Post by blaze on Feb 18, 2014 0:38:21 GMT 5
They have keratin don't they? the bone is the white shape inside the claws, if you are measuring along the curve it does appear to get close to twice the length of bone.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Feb 18, 2014 0:40:14 GMT 5
How do we know dromaeosaurid claws were like those of felids anyway?
Let me reiterate, most (if not perhaps all) bony projections have keratin sheathes making them larger by a significant degree. There's no reason to assume otherwise for dromaeosaurids.
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Post by Runic on Feb 18, 2014 1:52:41 GMT 5
Harpy eagles have bear sized claws and they work perfectly fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 2:06:35 GMT 5
I think that this is like a mini version of a Kodiak Bear and an Utahraptor fighting at parity.
I back the dromaeosaurid for it's better weaponry.
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Post by theropod on Feb 18, 2014 22:12:56 GMT 5
The keratinous sheath does make the claw considerably longer:  (btw an Onychectomy really is one sick procedure!) I wouldn’t say it affects the slicing capabilities that much, it will slice deeper but also require more force, in the direction paralell to the cut to do so. Depending on the material properties, a shorter structure may actually cut better, because it has a smaller edge-area, a smaller moment arm for external forces acting on it, and is less likely to get caught somewhere (particularly useful if there’s a saw-like motion involved, which is why animals utilising sawing motions tend to have intermediate to shortish teeth), although to cause similarly deep damage it will require more force perpendicular to its long axis to compress the tissues, or repeated bites to slice them away. It all depends on what they are doing. But of course a longer claw usually allows for deeper puncturing than a short one, especially if it is also more slender and has a more slender base. |
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Post by creature386 on Feb 18, 2014 22:51:02 GMT 5
Okay, I admit, if they become impractical or not depends on how they are used. A harpy like style should be no problem, but I am not sure about the classical slicing (it's not that likely anyway, the ecology paper has mentioned nothing about slicing or cutting).
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Post by theropod on Feb 18, 2014 23:29:23 GMT 5
Based on the shape (quite narrow, with a marked edge on the plantar side, even without the keratin), I would not be surprised at all if the claw could be used for a puncture-and-tear strategy, but I think the emphasis is on stabbing.
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Post by Runic on Feb 19, 2014 2:27:54 GMT 5
Based on the shape (quite narrow, with a marked edge on the plantar side, even without the keratin), I would not be surprised at all if the claw could be used for a puncture-and-tear strategy, but I think the emphasis is on stabbing. You know what's sad? I basically spelled this out to Taipan on CF and he wouldn't for the life of him understand it. Kept talking bout because its a tetrapod it only pinned smaller animals to the ground. |
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Post by theropod on Feb 19, 2014 2:34:49 GMT 5
Well, I think he’ll never understand some things. But sometimes when dealing with the mentally or psychically underprivileged, it is best to allow them to have their (imaginary) moments of triumph.
Birds of prey also behave in this way (except the tearing part), they mostly use their talons (morphometrically the closest living analogy for droms AFAIK) to grip and pin down smaller prey, but they are still capable of killing other carnivores several times their size, and sucessfully predationg upon Ungulates orders of magnitude bigger, utilising this and other methods the claws are suitable for.
Btw can someone knowledgeable on the subject post some data on how onitor lizards use their claws?
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Post by Runic on Feb 19, 2014 2:36:45 GMT 5
They use theirs for ritual grappling and holding prey to the ground.
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Post by Vodmeister on Feb 19, 2014 11:09:37 GMT 5
Presuming they are roughly equal in size, the velociraptor will pull it off 6/10, though the Honey Badger will be nothing short of a mighty opponent.
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Post by Honey Badger on Mar 10, 2014 3:32:46 GMT 5
I vote the velociraptor here. The badger would put up a serious fight though.
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 10, 2014 3:39:30 GMT 5
The Honey Badger would be very difficult to kill, I'd imagine. Mustelids can be incredibly durable for their relatively small size.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 3:35:14 GMT 5
Honey Badger is very durable and can win.
It is so overrated it is now underrated.
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