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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 19, 2023 3:03:55 GMT 5
So in theory, a male Megaloceros could avoid avoid the clearance problem by shifting it's head? Yeah, but I don't think the antlers were really all that much of a problem for its vision to begin with. If you look at its skull in side view, the massive palms don't quite line up with where its eyes are placed, they're more behind from the looks of it.  |
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Post by Exalt on Sept 19, 2023 3:52:26 GMT 5
Actually, I meant that as a question of if it would run into a problem of not being able to fit into spaces because it's headgear is too big.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 19, 2023 5:36:18 GMT 5
Oh, well in that case yeah, it kind of would have a problem (especially if it was really dense forest). To be fair, Irish elk actually exhibited variation in antler form in different populations, and it seems that those inhabiting more forested habitats had more upright, compact antlers ( Worman & KImbrell, 2008). That said, its extinction does coincide with the spread of closed forest, and it seems to have been absent in places modeled to have had a lot of temperate summergreen trees. One of the reasons for that likely was because those giant antlers would get tangled ( Lister & Stuart, 2019). |
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Post by theropod on Sept 19, 2023 17:15:36 GMT 5
So the question was if Megaloceros could just turn its head by 90° in order to not get stuck in vegetation with its antlers, am I understanding this right?
Would a Megaloceros possibly turn its head sideways to fit through some dense vegetation if that were its only option? Sure, why not? But is that a practical habitual posture to adopt that doesn’t come with its own problems? I don’t think it is, for several reasons.
That would transform a pair of antlers spanning 3 to 4 m bilaterally into…an equally large, equally heavy pair of antlers, merely rotated 90°.
Sure, it could certainly fit through some gaps between trees better that way, but it would likely still easily get tangled in vegetation with the antler that was facing forward, which would by necessity be the first thing to make contact with any vegetation it tried to go through, and would have its tines facing towards the tip in such a way as to easily get caught on every branch or vine it contacted. So its not as if that would transform it into something competent at going through thick vegetation, in fact it would still be terrible at it, even if it would help in certain situations.
I would also wager that it would be seriously risky to move fast with a neck rotated by 90° and a few tens of kilos of antler on top. Not because of lack of vision, but because it would be bearing a massive weight in a way its neck wasn’t adapted to do, and also because if its forward-facing antler got caught on anything even a little (which would seem a rather large risk, see above), I could easily see that causing it to break or dislocate its neck, since that neck is already twisted and overstrained to begin with. Imagine you had massive antlers on your head, then twisted your neck 90° and crashed into something with one of those antlers.
Either way, if the animal actually did habitually hold its head facing sideways, I’d expect to see skeletal adaptations for that, in the form of some degree of skeletal asymmetry to complement that habitual, asymmetrical posture. I’m not an expert on Megaloceros osteology, but I haven’t seen anything suggesting this.
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Post by Exalt on Sept 19, 2023 20:40:36 GMT 5
So, perhaps yes, but not if being chased or if there are still obstacles in the way?
For some context, I imagined say, two trees of relevant proximity. I didn't think of other plants.
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Post by theropod on Sept 20, 2023 2:27:23 GMT 5
Sure, I don’t see any reason to expect it would have been unable to turn its head to be able to pass between obstacles set too close to do so with the head in its normal orientation, I just think that ability is something thoroughly unspectacular (just like you or me will change our body position when carrying some bulky item through a doorframe), and doesn’t really change the way we see Megaloceros, as that doesn’t really change it being ill-suited for forest habitats.
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Post by Exalt on Sept 21, 2023 5:42:26 GMT 5
Any thoughts on the hypothesis that snakes greatly affected primate evolution?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 21, 2023 6:21:49 GMT 5
Any thoughts on the hypothesis that snakes greatly affected primate evolution? It is an interesting hypothesis (one I was introduced to by an episode of PBS Eons). I'm not sure if it's really confirmed, but there is some research in support of the hypothesis. bmcbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12915-021-01195-x |
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Post by Exalt on Sept 21, 2023 6:41:39 GMT 5
PBS Eons is also how I learned of it.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 22, 2023 8:28:13 GMT 5
Is it possible that when a carnivoran, like a cat or a bear, swipes another animal with its paw, it actually concentrates the brunt of the force on its fleshy paw pad instead of its claws? I know people concentrate on the damage the claws do from a paw swipe, but at the same time a lot of paw swipes don't seem to visibly cause any damage from the claws. Also, intuitively it'd seem like it'd hurt quite a bit to place all the pressure of the blow on the keratinous claws (if not put them at risk of fracture if the blow is hard enough). So could it be that they exert most of the force on the paw pad and a little bit on the claw tips?
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Post by Exalt on Sept 22, 2023 9:20:30 GMT 5
I've been leas to believe that bears sometimes do this, and I could see any predator with robust forelimbs doing it.
Youtube actually pointed out to me that the Amphicyons in 2007's prehistoric predators seem pretty slap-happy, oddly enough.
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Post by Exalt on Sept 28, 2023 3:01:40 GMT 5
The following is not meant to be dismissive of the animal discussed.
Why are Woolly Mammoths so "popular"? How did a creature that some could describe as "hairy elephant" become the most famous and beloved extinct animal that isn't a dinosaur?
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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 28, 2023 3:26:07 GMT 5
The following is not meant to be dismissive of the animal discussed. Why are Woolly Mammoths so "popular"? How did a creature that some could describe as "hairy elephant" become the most famous and beloved extinct animal that isn't a dinosaur? I can't speak for everyone, but the excellent WWB depiction (80-90%) plus the fact that we have frozen mammoths (10-20%) did it for me. Surely that combination of factors must have also did it for at least one more woolly mammoth fan. |
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Post by Exalt on Sept 28, 2023 3:32:58 GMT 5
I enjoy proboscideans in general, it just strikes me as odd.
Oddly enough, the effects of poaching leading to living elephants getting shorter tusks might make them stand out more, in a sad way.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 28, 2023 4:12:24 GMT 5
The following is not meant to be dismissive of the animal discussed. Why are Woolly Mammoths so "popular"? How did a creature that some could describe as "hairy elephant" become the most famous and beloved extinct animal that isn't a dinosaur? I think we can attribute their fame to a long period of study. The mere concept of an extinct hairy elephant (that we now call Mammuthus primigenius) started to become recognized by scientists starting in the very late 18th century, and frozen carcasses of the animals had been fully documented for as long (though frozen carcasses had already been found long beforehand). So we've known about woolly mammoths for a long time, and the concept of a hairy elephant must have been pretty astonishing and novel to people at the time (hell, it arguably still is a bit of an extraordinary fact/concept today). |
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