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Post by Infinity Blade on Feb 4, 2019 8:50:10 GMT 5
So if I'm understanding the rope analogy and what the square cube law says correctly, the total volume of a rope is not what determines its tensile strength, it is its cross section. However, the volume increases by the cube while the cross sectional area increases by the square. The same holds true for muscles; as an animal gets bigger (read: more massive), its muscles consequently get bigger (read: more voluminous). But just as with rope, the volume of the muscle increases faster than the cross sectional area does. This is why larger animals will seem "pound for pound" weaker than smaller ones, requiring the need to account for the square cube law to truly find out how strong certain muscles are in one animal compared to another animal that in real life differs from the first in size. I just wrote down a derivative of the mathematical expression of the square cube law. I think I have it right. EDIT: after TinyPic crapped itself and made this image invisible, I took it upon myself to see if I could obtain this derivative from the square cube law over a year later and reupload it to Imgbb, until I found the original picture-> in my emails. I remembered the first half, but not the second. Luckily when I saw the original I quickly remembered the purpose of the second half.
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Post by creature386 on Feb 4, 2019 17:47:24 GMT 5
Yeah, I got the same result.
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Post by theropod on Feb 5, 2019 5:28:17 GMT 5
Yep, correct.
I think you wouldn’t call it pressure, but tension, or stress (as it’s not compressive) but the principle is the same. Basically, the "pressure" the muscles can take, or pull against, is the muscle’s tension, and that tension divided by their cross-sectional area is the specific tension, which is relatively constant across animals (not knowing soft tissue details for extinct animals we usually take it as constant, though in some cases there might be reason to assume higher pennation angles, which would effectively increase the number of muscle fibres relative to the cross-section, thereby increasing the force).
In addition to the ones creature listed, other good questions you could throw up would be "why can ants lift objects much heavier than themselves, whereas we cannot?" or "why do insects get by with such thin legs?" or "Why don’t eel larvae or lungless salamanders need respiratory organs". The latter bases on the same principle, but here it’s the skin area for gas exchange that is proportionately larger in smaller animals.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Feb 10, 2019 1:31:46 GMT 5
@ theropodOne other tangentially-related question: if a shorter muscle isn't any weaker than a longer one, is a longer one weaker than a shorter one? This book ( Dogs: Their Fossil Relatives and Evolutionary History) claims that the properties of muscle tissue make a shorter muscle contract more efficiently than a longer one, and so the former can exert more power with less effort all else being equal. Is that true?
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Post by theropod on Feb 10, 2019 19:54:25 GMT 5
@ theropodOne other tangentially-related question: if a shorter muscle isn't any weaker than a longer one, is a longer one weaker than a shorter one? This book ( Dogs: Their Fossil Relatives and Evolutionary History) claims that the properties of muscle tissue make a shorter muscle contract more efficiently than a longer one, and so the former can exert more power with less effort all else being equal. Is that true? The length of a muscle doesn’t affect it’s tension no. But a shorter muscle needs less energy to fully contract (because the number of sarcomeres, which are the functional units that require energy), at the payoff of only moving a shorter distance. What they mean by "more efficient" is referring to work, the energy required for the contraction, so force (assumed to stay equal) times distance (smaller in shorter muscle). But the maximum tension they can generate is only dependant on diameter and fiber type. What the book says is that a "shorter neck can excert more power with less effort", which is true, but due to a completely different issue; because a longer neck means a longer out-lever for the muscles, with the same force of muscle pull the force output of the neck (e.g. in moving the head) will be lower. That’s why it is easier to hold a heavy weight close to your body than with an outstretched arm. Hence also why animals with very heavy heads to support tend to have short necks, because that requires less musculature to just support the weight (e.g. T. rex, or an elephant). Whereas animals with small heads can affort having longer necks because they need to produce less force at the end (e.g. Sauropods). Of course a shorter neck also has shorter muscles, but that’s not the reason it can produce more force, just a by-product that will further improve its efficiency but reduce its range of motion. Power in the physical sense btw is work divided by time, so the amount of energy used in a give time. That word doesn’t really make sense, I strongly presume the authors really mean force, as excerting more power with less effort is sort of an oxymoron. An important thing to keep in mind is the difference between the pure pulling force of a muscle, and the force output at whatever structure it is moving. If your jaw muscles can pull a total of 10kN of force, that doesn’t mean your bite force if also 10kN, because these muscles don’t just pull the jaw straight up, they insert in different places that are a given distance from the point of rotation, and thus have different mechanical advantage with respect to the different tooth positions. When talking about length being irrelevant, this only refers to the pulling force. With different mechanical advantage of course, the length can become relevant if it allows a muscle to move a longer lever.
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Post by creature386 on Feb 24, 2019 22:22:21 GMT 5
Much like Infinity Blade with his blog post, I wanted to review the script for a future video here:I admit I did not do much research. I types this off the top of my head from what I remember from college. A few particular questions: To those members well-versed in geology: Is the information factually accurate? Is important information missing (remember that I don't want to go far above 10 minutes though)? Did I set the right priorities (it's sad how the actual fossils get so little attention, but I felt like the stuff above that was important)? To those members not well-versed in geology, but interested in paleontology (e.g., most of my target audience): Can you follow this? Does the relevance to paleontology become clear?
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Post by theropod on Feb 25, 2019 18:22:40 GMT 5
I’d add that there are sometimes dinosaur fossils in pure carbonatic rocks, look no further than Solnhofen. Probably more important though is that lots of important dinosaur sites are marls, so they do contain a lot of carbonate as well.
In terms of the "boring" mineralogy, perhaps add something about dolomite? Much rarer, but still relevant.
Tying in with that, maybe also mention deposition outside of the classical carbonate shelf settings, such as evaporites or travertine?
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Post by creature386 on Feb 27, 2019 1:59:18 GMT 5
Good points, I think mentioning Solnhofen will make my target audience interested. Dolomite and non-traditional depositional environments are surely noteworthy, though I need a way to implement them that does not take too much screen time.
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Post by theropod on Feb 27, 2019 2:38:56 GMT 5
Maybe just mention in the introduction that other carbonates exist, but you want to focus on CaCO3, and specifically on biogenic deposition.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 12, 2019 7:24:00 GMT 5
Do we have any preserved skin from Megalonyx? Apparently one of the characteristics Kurtén and Anderson (1980) used to distinguish Paramylodon from Nothrotheriops and Megalonyx was the presence of dermal ossicles, which implies Nothrotheriops and Megalonyx lacked these. That sounds about right for Nothrotheriops (we have skin from it too, but no osteoderms to my knowledge). I don't know about the latter, though.
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Post by creature386 on Mar 12, 2019 18:14:02 GMT 5
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 12, 2019 19:48:53 GMT 5
Hmm, that would imply that we also have skin from Megatherium as well. But this book seems to suggest not ( link). Could it be they're just referring to the fact that while we have skeletons from Megatherium and Megalonyx, we haven't found evidence of dermal ossicles for them yet?
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Post by creature386 on Mar 12, 2019 19:53:11 GMT 5
Maybe that's because hair preserves less well than dermal ossicles and its presence is thus harder to rule out.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 16, 2019 9:51:45 GMT 5
Okay, yet again I need two questions answered this time around.
1.) Can anyone identify any instances where flightless, ground-dwelling birds have been hunted into extinction by mammalian carnivores? I know humans have done this before (e.g. to moa), but what about non-human mammalian predators? Does the fossil record ever document such an instance? Are there comparatively recent historical examples I'm forgetting about?
2.) Can anyone point me to information about the leg lengths of mammalian predators and their prey increasing throughout the Cenozoic?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 2, 2019 6:31:49 GMT 5
Okay, yet again I need two questions answered this time around. 1.) Can anyone identify any instances where flightless, ground-dwelling birds have been hunted into extinction by mammalian carnivores? I know humans have done this before (e.g. to moa), but what about non-human mammalian predators? Does the fossil record ever document such an instance? Are there comparatively recent historical examples I'm forgetting about? 2.) Can anyone point me to information about the leg lengths of mammalian predators and their prey increasing throughout the Cenozoic? And a third. How/what would you describe the original ecological niche of humans as before we left Africa (or at least before we started using agriculture)?
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