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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 22, 2014 1:41:46 GMT 5
Started on Carnivora by me. What in your opinion are the best weapons an animal can have (by that I do not mean artificial weapons)?
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Post by theropod on Mar 22, 2014 2:13:59 GMT 5
For a large predator, jaws and teeth (or close analogues, like hooked beaks, bony plates, or the mandibulae of insects) have been proven to be by far the most successful weapon on an evolutionary basis. That of course derives from more factors than just aptitude at killing, because I know many weapons equally or more deadly, depending on the situation they are being used in.
It’s impossible to say objectively which is the best weapon (which one looks coolest will always be part of the equation). Jaws will always be among my favourites because they are, objectively speaking, extremely sucessful and versatile, and still capable of extreme modifications as an adaption.
In a faceoff, I’d say spitting venom (or acid, or something that explodes, or all three...), or a set of long horns or tusks will be among the most potent weapons there are.
Venom and poison can be very helpful for other kinds of defense (e.g. poison dart frog) and of course for hunting. The same applies to electricity.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Mar 22, 2014 2:57:47 GMT 5
owning a decent pair of jaws is probrably the best evolutionary killing apendage. the versatility and diversity of jaw designes allows organisms to evolve different techniges in aquiring food. also jaws are one of the most variable weapon to have to kill their prey item if its given adaptations are predatory. being the most aquired adaptation among the majority of milticellular organisms, i fell safe to say that jaws are the among the best and reliable weapon to have
horns and/or thagomizers follow up as well for their versatility and apliance
i would say venom or toxic secreations would be a close third. they aid with aquiring their prey as well, and can be used for lethal purposes against an enemy if nessicery.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 22, 2014 3:23:58 GMT 5
I wonder if we should think of different tiers of weapons.
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Post by mechafire on Mar 22, 2014 3:45:23 GMT 5
Hard to say. Maybe jaws, but a weapon can't really be "better" in the animal kingdom
An alligator has a much stronger bite force, but a smilodon's bite can be dsi to be "better" because it can pierce deeper and cut the blood vessels. What about the long mandibles of the stag beetle, which allows it to deliver massive damage an defeat most other insects or Arachnids. A sharks bite can deliver a clean cut with ease, but against larger and more armored opponents its less effective.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Mar 22, 2014 5:55:13 GMT 5
^tell that to tiger sharks and cookie cutter sharks who commenly predate on sea turtles and even metal scraps from licence plates to torpedos to even chunks of submarines! sharks often get around their rather weak bite force by having very well adapted teeth used to litterally buzzsaw through thier prey items. its one of the reasons why their keen to slice through flesh and bone.
i agree with you that no set of jaws is better for the other, for the jaw design is what allows the animal to acomplish it's needs. but statement can be said that this design of jaws are "better siuted" then the other when it comes to a single particular task.
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Post by Grey on Mar 22, 2014 7:15:49 GMT 5
I have to recall though that sharks jaws are overall rather weak for their size but there are exceptions. The bull shark has the highest bite force at parity weight among all sharks, up to twice its body mass. It combines razor sharp dentition and strong bite force.
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 22, 2014 7:54:55 GMT 5
Out of the ones in the poll, large jaws wins it, eg. those on a Liopleurodon, Deinosuchus, Great Whites Shark, etc...
You also should have included grappling ability.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 22, 2014 7:58:06 GMT 5
Which can be with claws.
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Mar 22, 2014 8:39:25 GMT 5
I have to recall though that sharks jaws are overall rather weak for their size but there are exceptions. The bull shark has the highest bite force at parity weight among all sharks, up to twice its body mass. It combines razor sharp dentition and strong bite force. well, i never ment sharks in general. perhaps i should of been more specific  . but as said, their razor sharp detition has shown to be enough to slice even through solid bone. although i do understand exceptions |
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Post by mechafire on Mar 22, 2014 9:10:48 GMT 5
any ways, best in each
Jaws: megalodon
Claws: therizinosaurus (if it did indeed used them as weapons)
Horn: hercules beetle/triceratops
Antler: elk?
Spikes: don't know
Clubs: mantis shrimp/ ankylosaurus
Hooves: horse?
Other: way too much to pick
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 22, 2014 9:14:28 GMT 5
How about octopus ink or snake venom? What about jellyfish stings or bacterial bites? Hell, the most superior weapon of them all is probably electric shocks which some species of eels and stingray can deliver.
From all the weapons I mentioned above, I would probably rank them like this from most to least effective in a fight;
1. Electric shocks
2. Jellyfish stings
3. Snake venom
4. Bacterial bite
5. Octopus ink
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Post by creature386 on Mar 22, 2014 13:29:42 GMT 5
Overall, jaws have proven to be most efficient. The best jaws should be found in predators which use only them (i.e. pliosaurs, sharks). The fact that so many can fight only with jaws further proves their efficiency for predators.
As for battles, I would pick some very quickly paralyzing venom (like in box jellyfish or cone snails).
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Post by theropod on Mar 22, 2014 16:21:09 GMT 5
I have to recall though that sharks jaws are overall rather weak for their size but there are exceptions. The bull shark has the highest bite force at parity weight among all sharks, up to twice its body mass. It combines razor sharp dentition and strong bite force. You are referring to this? shell.cas.usf.edu/motta/2012Habeggerbiteforcebullsharks.pdfBull sharks and great white sharks have a different dentition. The former’s teeth are much shorter and more numerous, perhaps as a consequence of having to withstand greater forces without dislodging. Generally, it is not possible for an animal to retain the exact same tooth design but have a greater bite force. There are no animals that "combine" the best features of all jaws.   Also, direct comparison to the great white may not be fair, since this study analysed a big number of specimens, the biggest of which yielded the reported maximum bite force, while Wroe used a single (relatively small) specimen of C. carcharias. In smaller bull sharks, the bite force scaled with positive allometry, and that likely applies to other animals as well. |
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Post by Grey on Mar 22, 2014 19:06:20 GMT 5
I've not compared the bull shark and the great white dentitions.
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. but as said, their razor sharp detition has shown to be enough to slice even through solid bone. although i do understand exceptions
