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Post by theropod on Jul 12, 2014 3:48:30 GMT 5
The amount of force a human kick excerts entirely depends on what it is hitting.
If the wolf can pull back in time, that will prevent even the strongest kick from excerting enough force on the leg to break it (similar to how you’ll have a very hard time breaking off a branch that hangs from a rope by pulling on one end).
If the human can kick it in a way that pushes the distal end to the ground, I think it could manage to break or dislocate a leg (But of course the wolf’s agility would complicate this vastly).
Kicks to the head I’d imagine wouldn’t be very effective in terms of dealing damage. The animals wolves hunt have much faster and harder kicks than any human, and wolves can survive theirs. The head is probably too sturdy and has too much freedom of movement to sustain major injuries through such blunt impacts.
I think kicks to the ribcage would be the most damaging, since it has the greatest mass and inertia, and, by inference, will experience the greatest force or deformation.
A human could probably suceed in driving off a wolf with kicks quite often. If the wolf is, however, determined to kill it (e.g. starving, protecting its young…), I don’t give it great chances.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jul 12, 2014 7:58:20 GMT 5
The average human is nowhere near as large as most people think. Avg. Weight: 62.0 kg en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_weightThis is worldwide, of course. The average North American man is 80.7 kg, significantly above average. |
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Post by malikc6 on Jul 17, 2014 12:40:08 GMT 5
I really wonder how someone would do against a wolf if they blocked out all pain and only focused on grabbing a forearm and nothing else at all. Like actually get in a stable wrestling stance and kept charging at the wolf trying to grab a leg and attempt to break it.
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Post by theropod on Jul 23, 2014 16:12:10 GMT 5
Where does that "grab a forearm idea" come from? Even if it would succeed in breaking it (which would be very difficult), that would be a terribly ineffective (and typically primate) fighting technique.
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Post by malikc6 on Jul 23, 2014 18:38:58 GMT 5
I love how you're calling the male human "it" lol. I got the idea from wrestlers and MMA strategies.
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Post by theropod on Jul 23, 2014 20:06:50 GMT 5
I’m calling other animals "it", unless the gender is specified (as for example T. rex specimen MOR 1125, which is a "she"), and frankly I’m a bit sick of always having to write "he/she" when that isn’t the case (which is isn’t here) in a human, so I thought I’d adapte the "it"-practice for higher primates too.
I doubt techniques from show fights which are not actually intended to be effective at damaging an opponent will help the human a lot here. Actually I wouldn’t call them strategies at all, charging and wildly swiping at a wolf or trying to punch it in the face would not qualify as such (unless the goal was to get oneself killed).
Part of what’s necessary if a human really wants to survive an encounter with a wolf determined to kill it is undboutedly to save energy. Its best chance is to keep it at bay with precise kicks.
If it both expends lots of power and allows the wolf to bite it (which it would if it used those wrestling/MMA "strategies"), it will be dead in no time, even if it suceeds in reaching its throat it will likely get injured to badly in the process to still be able to kill it.
It isn’t as easy as just blocking out pain, a wolf bite does more than just hurt. A human can”t block out the damage along with the pain. People who get speared or crushed may not feel any pain due to adrenalin, but they’ll still die.
Maybe, if it remains really focused it can wear down the wolf by kicking it and then strangulate it. But imo it’s more likely that the wolf will be the one just rushing in and, in its case, making the kill (due to its much more effective weaponery and superior agility and killing instinct).
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Post by malikc6 on Jul 24, 2014 11:52:03 GMT 5
I’m calling other animals "it", unless the gender is specified (as for example T. rex specimen MOR 1125, which is a "she"), and frankly I’m a bit sick of always having to write "he/she" when that isn’t the case (which is isn’t here) in a human, so I thought I’d adapte the "it"-practice for higher primates too. I doubt techniques from show fights which are not actually intended to be effective at damaging an opponent will help the human a lot here. Actually I wouldn’t call them strategies at all, charging and wildly swiping at a wolf or trying to punch it in the face would not qualify as such (unless the goal was to get oneself killed). Part of what’s necessary if a human really wants to survive an encounter with a wolf determined to kill it is undboutedly to save energy. Its best chance is to keep it at bay with precise kicks. If it both expends lots of power and allows the wolf to bite it (which it would if it used those wrestling/MMA "strategies"), it will be dead in no time, even if it suceeds in reaching its throat it will likely get injured to badly in the process to still be able to kill it. It isn’t as easy as just blocking out pain, a wolf bite does more than just hurt. A human can”t block out the damage along with the pain. People who get speared or crushed may not feel any pain due to adrenalin, but they’ll still die. Maybe, if it remains really focused it can wear down the wolf by kicking it and then strangulate it. But imo it’s more likely that the wolf will be the one just rushing in and, in its case, making the kill (due to its much more effective weaponery and superior agility and killing instinct). Another reason why I support the male human here is because, if you look at the people that wolves have killed throughout history, they're mostly women and children. A few males were elderly. Human males in their prime were often killed by a pack of wolves. There isn't too many instances of a single wolf killing the "average" man one on one. There have been attacks, but they often fight them off, and some men even kill them. There is an account of a 60 year old man who somehow managed to strangle a wolf too death that attacked him. It's in the early 1900's though. You are correct. Stamina would be very important for the human. Wolves could last much longer than we can. The man would have to win fast. I don't think the man should have too much of an issue with kicking because he's likely going to have boots or shoes on unless this is a fight where the man is naked and barefoot... The following one is unlikely but hear it out. What if the guy somehow managed to get onto the wolf's back? I mean it would be hard because a wolf isn't going to let that happen so easily. More like they're wrestling and the man somehow got in that position with the wolf. He could probably go for a sleeperhold and kill the wolf as it has no defense against that other than thrashing for a few seconds before it slips into unconsciousness. Most humans can't escape a sleeper hold, even highly skilled fighters and extremely strong humans have a difficult time escaping from that, even if it came from a much weaker person. |
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Post by theropod on Jul 24, 2014 14:11:48 GMT 5
So on the whole, accounts of unarmed humans killing wolves are certainly not any better than the reverse. There’s exactly one old freak incident, that’s all. Not worth muzch beyond proving the obvious.
There are dangerous and powerful animals not known for their aggression towards humans (for example killer whales), which doesn’t mean they would have trouble killing them if they wanted to.
Yes, I think a human could kill a wolf in the situation you describe. The problem with that is that all your scenarios seem to be "what if" scenarios. They don’t seem particularly likely.
I could think of many ways a human could kill a wolf if the canid let it, but that doesn’t really help in real life. There are equally many ways the wolf could kill the human, which are alltogether more likely. For example:
What if the wolf manages rush in and grab a leg?
What if the wolf leaps at the human and pulls it down?
What if the wolf bites the human’s head or neck while the latter tries one of its ways of killing it?
What if the human is not able to execute its strategies if one of its arms is incapacitated by a wolf bite?
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Post by Supercommunist on Jul 24, 2014 18:38:00 GMT 5
Have you ever considered that is because humans appear dangerous, rather than actually being difficult to kill. As bipeds, we probably give other animals the impression that we are larger than we actually are.
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Post by jhg on Aug 21, 2016 9:06:25 GMT 5
Wolf takes this.
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Post by An Goldish Jade on Sept 2, 2017 15:06:47 GMT 5
For the wolf, nothing is better then a nice dinner of ape meat.
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 3, 2017 11:39:17 GMT 5
For the wolf, nothing is better then a nice dinner of ape meat. Looking back at this topic, I'm giving this to the wolf, as honestly the only way for a person to beat a wolf is by NOT being the average person. When it comes to human beings against wild animals and people winning, either the human was incredibly lucky, was very strong, unusual resilience, or a combination of all three. There are many accounts of men killing wolves one on one, but just like what I said, those were unusual. You will have a hard time finding instances of young and middle aged men being killed by wolves ONE ON ONE (trust me I've searched), but the fact is, the wolf's bite isn't going to be like a common dog bite. It's bone crushing and muscle tearing, combined with heavier weight and a stronger build than most dogs. Sure the person can try certain techniques to potentially subdue the wolf via strangling it, breaking limbs, or even eye gouging, but a common person is going to either run away leading to his/her death, with the wolf dealing with some annoying flailing as a struggle. I think the average man definitely has the potential to win the fight due to intelligence, but many people seem to lose their fighting spirit when against an animal. You can anger a man and get into a fight with him, and he will be trying many ways to subdue you and vice versa and both are filled with rage, but all of that seems to go away when fighting an animal. Even an animal of similar build like a chimpanzee makes people scared. Believe it or not, you can beat a chimpanzee in a fight in a similar manner as fighting a person if skilled enough. You can choke it into unconsciousness, break their wrists via numerous martial art techniques, eye gouge it, attack the testicles, etc. But their teeth and explosive aggression destroys the person's confidence, and knowing that they target the groin makes it even worse. Even a person on drugs rushing at you biting and screaming is psychological. I've always found it strange and fascinating where all of that anger and confidence goes. You would think that a wild animal attacking someone would make them mad and filled with a desire to fight for their lives, but many people seem to just panic. In any case, a solid bite from the wolf can and will impair the person throughout the battle. Especially if bitten on the arm/wrist/hand. |
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 3, 2017 11:57:03 GMT 5
There are a few methods on how to stop an attacking dog. One of which is actually allowing the dog to knock you to the ground. The idea here is to essentially flip the dog onto its back if you can manage to do that. The person must use their elbows to push the front legs of the dog out and using your feet to keep the hindlegs out of the way and 'straddle' it. From there, the person could flip the dog over where the person has the advantage. From then on, you could pummel the dog into unconscious (rather difficult because of their strong skulls), or choke it. Take into account that you WILL be getting bitten pretty badly. You better have a strong pain tolerance or some type of adrenaline rush to block out the horrible pain of your muscles being torn.
I really doubt most people are going to know how to do that, and this is a wolf, a lot stronger than most dogs. Flipping over a wolf is going to take quite a bit of strength and an insane amount of will power.
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Post by An Goldish Jade on Sept 6, 2017 13:22:30 GMT 5
well, I would just panic and try to run, when the wolf attacks, let along even think about those tactics above.
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 7, 2017 19:03:30 GMT 5
well, I would just panic and try to run, when the wolf attacks, let along even think about those tactics above. Not being mean, but doesn't it make more sense to stand your ground especially knowing that you cannot outrun the wolf? Prey in general have better chances of survival against most predators when they don't run away and instead fight. |
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