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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 3, 2013 6:43:18 GMT 5
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Post by Runic on Jun 3, 2013 7:00:22 GMT 5
If a wolf can break the orbital of a musk ox and survive holes in its skull and kicks from 1000lb bison then I might as well say a hyena ain't killing a wolf based off that right? 9/10 when a lion wants a hyena dead they don't sit there with one dangling from their mouth all idle. |
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Post by Runic on Jun 3, 2013 7:02:58 GMT 5
And funny you use that account to say hyena are super durable yet hyena kill hyena all the time. Not as much as wolves but they still do. Does this mean a hyena has an easier time killing another hyena than a lion does?
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 3, 2013 7:33:20 GMT 5
Black Ice, Check this account out.  Hyena Nights, Kalahari Days By Gus Mills, M. G. L. Mills Page 102 A bull Wildebeest can easily 700 pounds, do you think any Wolf could have handled it as simple as this female Hyena, Ella did? Read about the extraordinary bite of a Hyena, it's designed to crush bones, and make a meal out of a skeleton.  Extraordinary Animals: An Encyclopedia of Curious and Unusual Animals By Ross Piper Page 228 Read the second paragraph, a Hyena's morphology is designed for pure power.  1,037 Practice Questions for the New GMAT By Princeton Review Page 494 Could you say the same about Wolves? No, because their physique is more oriented towards speed. Hyenas are the physically stronger, more durable, more powerful build, and have a much stronger bite than Wolves. In my opinion you can't bet against the Hyena here. |
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Post by Runic on Jun 3, 2013 7:55:39 GMT 5
Black Ice, Check this account out. Hyena Nights, Kalahari Days By Gus Mills, M. G. L. Mills Page 102 A bull Wildebeest can easily 700 kg, do you think any Wolf could have handled it as simple as this female Hyena, Ella did? Read about the extraordinary bite of a Hyena, it's designed to crush bones, and make a meal out of a skeleton. Extraordinary Animals: An Encyclopedia of Curious and Unusual Animals By Ross Piper Page 228 Read the second paragraph, a Hyena's morphology is designed for pure power. 1,037 Practice Questions for the New GMAT By Princeton Review Page 494 Could you say the same about Wolves? No, because their physique is more oriented towards speed. Hyenas are the physically stronger, more durable, more powerful build, and have a much stronger bite than Wolves. In my opinion you can't bet against the Hyena here. 1. Wildebeest weigh in the rangeof musk ox. I think the rest is self explanatory. Yet I ask again, where are the broken bones? In the lonely kill the LONE wolf crushed the musk oxes orbital. Wheres the broken bone in the hyena account? 2. Much stronger bite at the carnassials and molars which are never used in a fight and really only aid in feeding. 3. More durable is cancelled out by the wolves more damaging jaws. AND wolves grapple better with the mouth. In actuality, the wolf outguns the hyena Physically stronger =/= more powerful so you said the same thing twice. And not overall as hyena have underdeveloped hind limbs |
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LeopJag
Member
Panthera kryptikos (cryptic, evasive panther)
Posts: 440
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Post by LeopJag on Jun 24, 2013 7:30:21 GMT 5
the hyena's fearsome bite force is to my knowledge mostly appied to molar/carnasial teeth, which are used less than the canines and incisors in conflict so it is my belief that its bite force will make very little difference in the outcome of this fight. Actually the spotted hyena's skull is notably shorter than the grey wolf's (as soon as i find the comparison pics i'll post them right here), the closer a portion of the tooth/jaw is to the jaw hinge - the source of the strength - the greater the bite force can be applied. i'm not sure but i think the rostrum (the snout part of the skull) on the sp. hyena is shorter aswell.. I'm not as certain of the outcome of this matchup now as i was previously. |
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LeopJag
Member
Panthera kryptikos (cryptic, evasive panther)
Posts: 440
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Post by LeopJag on Jun 25, 2013 11:24:52 GMT 5
Original  and line marked  in the image shown here, the spotted hyena's skull is over all longer than the grey wolf's... interesting that while the wolf's nostrum is longer, the back part of its skull is somewhat shorter than the hyena's. in dimensions the wolf's is narrower except in that space between the eyes (what do they call it again?) where there is hardly much difference between them...the hyena's still being a tad wider. think these skulls are from Dinocrocuta's collection... |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jul 18, 2014 19:30:36 GMT 5
This is a very close fight, at least at equal weights. The hyena has a more powerful bite, a more robust build, a thicker/more muscular neck, and I have a feeling it's going to be the one less susceptible to overheating. However, as stated previously, the wolf has dentition better for tearing and the likes, better grappling ability with the jaws, apparently stronger hindlimbs, and maybe more protective integument, as well as aggression apparently. At parity, it can likely go either way, but the hyena's bigger on average no?
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Post by malikc6 on Jul 19, 2014 1:15:47 GMT 5
It could be close at parity, but I'm thinking to myself. Lions sometimes have trouble killing hyenas. Hyenas are very durable animals. I mean I think the wolf is more aggressive and likely a more experienced fighter, but it would take quite a while to kill the hyena, and the hyena would be fighting hard to. I would also say that the wolf has better forearms for grappling and probably is more agile. The wolf's bite I would say does more damage than the hyena. I used to believe that the hyenas bite was much more powerful than the wolf's but it's bite is actually located in the hyenas back teeth which aren't used in a fight.
At parity, I say about 50/50 and the fight would last pretty long. Both animals can fight for quite a while. At average weights, I say the hyena takes this.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jul 19, 2014 3:28:12 GMT 5
If the back teeth aren't used, then if you look at the canines ( Bite Forces And Evolutionary Adaptations To Feeding Ecology In Carnivores (Christiansen and Wroe, 2007); if anyone can provide a different study with different values for the two species, that would be appreciated)   a 63.1 kilogram spotted hyena bites with a force of 565.7N at the canines. Meanwhile, a 35.5 kilogram grey wolf bites with a force of 493.5N at the canines. If you scale the wolf to the same size as the hyena, you get ~724.1N (rounded to the nearest tenth). Meaning if anything, the wolf actually bites harder at the canines by ~28% at equal weights...if the study is correct that is (I literally cannot believe my calculations are correct for some reason). Here's how I got that ((cube root of (63.1/35.5)) 2)* wolf bite force 63.1/35.5=1.777464788732394. Cube root of that is 1.211342632027303. That squared is 1.467350972166834*493.5= 724.1377047643327N. Once again, if someone can provide different values from a different study or if there is anything wrong in my post, please provide it or correct me. |
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Post by theropod on Jul 19, 2014 3:28:24 GMT 5
The hyaena likely also has a stronger bite in the front of its jaws, considering it’s both more brevirostrine and has a more massive skull. But bite force isn’t everything. Could whoever (I think Runic) came up with that initially repost the data according to which wolf bites are more damaging? Edit: Based on the data from Christiansen & Wroe, the wolf would also have a stronger bite at the back teeth. However the spotted hyaena bites much weaker than the brown and striped hyaenas from the same study when corrected for size. |
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Post by Runic on Jul 19, 2014 5:19:06 GMT 5
The hyaena likely also has a stronger bite in the front of its jaws, considering it’s both more brevirostrine and has a more massive skull. But bite force isn’t everything. Could whoever (I think Runic) came up with that initially repost the data according to which wolf bites are more damaging? Edit: Based on the data from Christiansen & Wroe, the wolf would also have a stronger bite at the back teeth. However the spotted hyaena bites much weaker than the brown and striped hyaenas from the same study when corrected for size. Unlikely the hyena bites harder at the front seeing as how they crunch at the molars while wolves bite down with the canines and thus are more likely to deal with bone fragments and such. Wolves bite comparable to hyena but the latter's skull absorbs the stress better. |
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Post by theropod on Jul 19, 2014 13:57:12 GMT 5
Well, based on those estimates the wolf actually bites considerably harder at both, owing to Crocuta’s extremely weak bite compared to Hyaena, which I find strange.
Hyaenas obviously bite with their canines too, and wolves obviously bite with their carnassials.
A shorter rostrum and more space for jaw muscles would indicate the bite at the front teeth to be stronger, because the mechanical advantage and muscular force would be superior, but something doesn’t match up here. Brown and striped hyaenas bite as expected according to these data, but spotted hyaenas don’t.
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Post by creature386 on Jul 19, 2014 14:40:00 GMT 5
Hyaenas obviously bite with their canines too, and wolves obviously bite with their carnassials. But still, it is possible to have different centers of bite force. Hyenas of course also use their canines, but their bite strength is more focused on the caudal region of the jaw: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2000.tb00622.x/abstractI can't explain why they still have lower bite forces there, but you see that the gap in carnassial bite force between the two is significantly lower than the gap in canine bite force. |
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Post by Runic on Jul 19, 2014 15:24:35 GMT 5
^ he gets it.
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