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Post by Infinity Blade on Dec 13, 2015 17:25:46 GMT 5
Carcharodon carcharias Edestus giganteus
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 23, 2016 18:48:07 GMT 5
I recently found a paper suggesting the whorls of Edestus were unlikely to have been used in a fashion akin to scissors given the convex curvature of the anterior end of the whorls (only the posteriormost teeth actually occlude with those on the opposite whorl). Instead, it suggests that it killed using upward and downward slashing/slicing motions with the jaws fixed. Such an attack strategy would actually be more viable on large prey items, as small prey (if it was small enough, i.e. if its dimensions were smaller than that of the tooth whorl) might have been pushed away without a lot of damage. In E. giganteus, the tooth bases were massive, which would have added resistance against forceful slashes and increased the force of a downward slashing motion with added weight. So instead of a scissor, it would have been more like a leiomano. Now, whether or not Edestus had the musculature for such an action is unknown, although it might have flexed its entire body in U or inverted U shapes or used its pectoral fins like wings to move itself up or down. If E. giganteus utilized such an attack method against the apparently similar sized great white shark, I'd imagine it would have horrific results. References:"Edestus, The Strangest Shark? First Report from New Mexico, North American Paleobiogeography, and a New Hypothesis on Its Method of Predation" (Itano, 2014). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2016 19:29:43 GMT 5
I recently found a paper suggesting the whorls of Edestus were unlikely to have been used in a fashion akin to scissors given the convex curvature of the anterior end of the whorls (only the posteriormost teeth actually occlude with those on the opposite whorl). Instead, it suggests that it killed using upward and downward slashing/slicing motions with the jaws fixed. Such an attack strategy would actually be more viable on large prey items, as small prey (if it was small enough, i.e. if its dimensions were smaller than that of the tooth whorl) might have been pushed away without a lot of damage. In E. giganteus, the tooth bases were massive, which would have added resistance against forceful slashes and increased the force of a downward slashing motion with added weight. So instead of a scissor, it would have been more like a leiomano. Now, whether or not Edestus had the musculature for such an action is unknown, although it might have flexed its entire body in U or inverted U shapes or used its pectoral fins like wings to move itself up or down. If E. giganteus utilized such an attack method against the apparently similar sized great white shark, I'd imagine it would have horrific results. References:"Edestus, The Strangest Shark? First Report from New Mexico, North American Paleobiogeography, and a New Hypothesis on Its Method of Predation" (Itano, 2014).That is very interesting indeed. I think that I would still back the GWS though, as I think it can bite more freely. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 23, 2016 20:30:53 GMT 5
That's sort of moot IMO, as the aforementioned attack method suggests Edestus wouldn't really be biting at all, more like striking/slashing in order to severely injure another animal. And I think such an attack method should be able to be implemented in a free manner.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 1:52:20 GMT 5
That's sort of moot IMO, as the aforementioned attack method suggests Edestus wouldn't really be biting at all, more like striking/slashing in order to severely injure another animal. And I think such an attack method should be able to be implemented in a free manner. Well, what I perhaps meant is that IMO the Great White could utilize it's weaponry better. Because IMO Edestus needs to get into a specific position in order to get a good slash/strike onto the great white. I think that the way that the great white would attack would also cause greater damage as well. But this is just IMO. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 24, 2016 1:59:32 GMT 5
That's sort of moot IMO, as the aforementioned attack method suggests Edestus wouldn't really be biting at all, more like striking/slashing in order to severely injure another animal. And I think such an attack method should be able to be implemented in a free manner. Well, what I perhaps meant is that IMO the Great White could utilize it's weaponry better. Because IMO Edestus needs to get into a specific position in order to get a good slash/strike onto the great white. I think that the way that the great white would attack would also cause greater damage as well. But this is just IMO. I'm aware of what you meant. But I for one don't really see why Edestus would need to get into a specific position to apply an effective attack. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 14:27:04 GMT 5
Well, what I perhaps meant is that IMO the Great White could utilize it's weaponry better. Because IMO Edestus needs to get into a specific position in order to get a good slash/strike onto the great white. I think that the way that the great white would attack would also cause greater damage as well. But this is just IMO. I'm aware of what you meant. But I for one don't really see why Edestus would need to get into a specific position to apply an effective attack. What I meant by a "specific position was the Edestus might need to do something like go below or above the shark in order to slash down or up, and while in this position the shark might be able to just get a good bite. It wouldn't be easy, but I still think that the Great white shark would win in this fight. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 24, 2016 17:55:36 GMT 5
I'm aware of what you meant. But I for one don't really see why Edestus would need to get into a specific position to apply an effective attack. What I meant by a "specific position was the Edestus might need to do something like go below or above the shark in order to slash down or up, and while in this position the shark might be able to just get a good bite. It wouldn't be easy, but I still think that the Great white shark would win in this fight. It wouldn't need to do that, as a slash to the sides of the great white could work as well. It would be akin to a giant leiomano (or for that matter, any weapon that can be wielded in the same way) slashing the shark's flanks or whatnot upwards or downwards, which would be a viable application of assault. I think at similar sizes, this would probably be at around 50/50. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 23:26:27 GMT 5
What I meant by a "specific position was the Edestus might need to do something like go below or above the shark in order to slash down or up, and while in this position the shark might be able to just get a good bite. It wouldn't be easy, but I still think that the Great white shark would win in this fight. It wouldn't need to do that, as a slash to the sides of the great white could work as well. It would be akin to a giant leiomano (or for that matter, any weapon that can be wielded in the same way) slashing the shark's flanks or whatnot upwards or downwards, which would be a viable application of assault. I think at similar sizes, this would probably be at around 50/50. lol Sorry about that, I admittedly didn't read too much on the evidence you posted to prove it's a capable predator. Excuse me for my ignorance, but does that mean that it can fight in a manner of a sawfish? To be honest, I still think that the shark's style of attacking would be better suited for this match-up because it can IMO cause more damage to Edestus than otherwise. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 25, 2016 0:53:47 GMT 5
It wouldn't need to do that, as a slash to the sides of the great white could work as well. It would be akin to a giant leiomano (or for that matter, any weapon that can be wielded in the same way) slashing the shark's flanks or whatnot upwards or downwards, which would be a viable application of assault. I think at similar sizes, this would probably be at around 50/50. lol Sorry about that, I admittedly didn't read too much on the evidence you posted to prove it's a capable predator. Excuse me for my ignorance, but does that mean that it can fight in a manner of a sawfish? To be honest, I still think that the shark's style of attacking would be better suited for this match-up because it can IMO cause more damage to Edestus than otherwise. Well, here's what the paper stated about comparison to sawfish. In other words, I guess in a way Edestus could be compared to a sawfish, although differences are that 1.) instead of lateral strikes, Edestus would have slashed dorsoventrally and 2.) more importantly, its weapon wouldn't have had the reach of a sawfish's rostrum (which also suggests it wouldn't have hunted small "fish" like one). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:09:45 GMT 5
Gotta give this to Carchar.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Feb 10, 2019 14:45:05 GMT 5
I'd say this could go either way. Both are fairly similar with damaging attacks, and whoever landed a bite first would likely be able to gain an edge.
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