How I feel about creationists

[malikc6]

I know that there is a lot of dislike and disdain for creationists on this board and that nearly everyone here is an atheist, but I don't completely share the same amount of disdain. I am not a creationist. I am an agnostic with spiritual beliefs. 

What I want to say is that I understand that most creationists deny evidence and facts, but me personally, I only feel like that's only an issue if those people attempt to stop scientific advancement and promoting ignorance. I myself have a family where just about everyone believes in God and denies evolution. I have to often keep my true feelings suppressed about this, because every time I bring up evolution, they deny it. Even my sister who doesn't believe in spirits, yet believes in Heaven and Hell, and disbelieves evolution. This makes no sense, but there's no getting through to her. 

I feel that it's OK to believe in whatever higher power one wishes to, but they shouldn't turn the blind eye to actual facts and evidence. Many creationists will tell agnostics and atheists that they are close minded, when in fact its THEM who are being closed minded. They cut themselves off from everything but their beliefs, and this can and has lead to disaster. I especially hate fundamentalists for this reason, because these people will go out to the streets and claim that science is poison, when really its their beliefs that are poison and set people backwards. 

Overall, I feel that believing something based on some type of experience or for emotional comfort is fine. I admit that a lot of my spiritual beliefs are based on my experiences and emotions, and some of them are hard to explain, because certain experiences and emotions must be felt. In fact, some of my spiritual beliefs tie in with science to some degree, but that's a discussion for another time. But when one's beliefs stop advancement and push a person further and further into ignorance, it becomes completely toxic. 

I personally want creationists to become more open minded and humble. Heck there are creationists who accept evolution and see it as a form "God" creating man. I personally have no issue with this. Some even say that it was God who destroyed the dinosaurs by sending a meteor there. That's fine for me, as long as they acknowledge that an event happened that wiped off the dinosaurs instead of some saying that dinosaurs were planted by Satan...

I also want to end with this. I've spoken to quite a bit of old creationists. Heck a few days back, I spoke with a creationist who fought in the Korean War. He told me he talked to Jesus 30 years ago and that Jesus put him on a mission of love. I have a friend named Mark (elderly) who claims that God gave him unique abilities years ago. I've spoken with another that told me that when her life was falling apart as a result from drugs and the wrong crowd, she found Jesus, and over time, her life got better and better.

It may be not the same for you guys here, but I couldn't tell someone who has clung to their religious beliefs for YEARS and YEARS that they are delusional and get into this big argument with them trying to disprove them. If they have lived good lives under whatever belief they have, I say allow them to, but I WON'T allow them to force it on others. Sharing a belief is fine, because it's up to the person to decide if its good for them, but shaming someone who follows evidence and facts is just stupid. That's where I draw the line. I have certain beliefs that are not entirely backed up, and I admit this, and if people ask them, I gladly share them, but I won't say that my beliefs are the end all be all. 


Thanks for reading. 


 

[creature386]

There is nothing wrong* with inferring beliefs (including creationism) from intuition or experience. The reason why most of us here are so hostile is presumably the vocal minority phenomenon:

I know a few creationists in real life (unfortunately, they are outnumbered by the nutty ones I see on the Internet) who are not bad at all. I also know that not everyone can be converted, but I do believe that evolution vs creationism discourses should still exist, as there are probably enough people who are interested in the evidence and discovered some of the misinformation spread by creationists.

It should be also noted that we definitely do not hate creationists, we even have rules against that:
theworldofanimals.proboards.com/thread/18/religious-sensitivity-important

*For clarification, it is wrong in an epistemological sense in that it tends to produce incorrect result. It is not wrong in a moral sense (having irrational beliefs does not make you evil).

[Cross]

My status as a Roman Catholic Theistic who fully supports evolution should be useful to this thread.

First of all, Saint Augustine, a well-known and honored Catholic saint, encouraged Christians to always seek the truth. Wherever it may take them. He encouraged critical thinking and argued against a literal interpretation of Genesis. To be ignorant or detesting against scientific evidence and to stubbornly cling to only one's interpretation of something can actually be considered non-Christian behavior in a sense. Evolution is supported by anatomy, genetics, embryology, and paleontology. It has been proven that human embyros still possess tails and fish gills, and genetics and evolution come together to more or less confirm that humans WERE descended from an ancestor with gills and a tail.
The thing with the majority of conservative Christians/Catholics is that they have this delusion where they think evolution was made up for the sole purpose of trying to disprove God, but this can't be farther from the truth. Evolution was DISCOVERED, not made up. And evolution is simply a well-supported theory of biological phenomena that explains how organisms come to be and diversify. It has absolutely nothing to do with contesting against the Christian/Catholic doctrine. Charles Darwin was never even an atheist to begin with. He was raised a Christian and spent his later years as an agnostic.
Catholics such as myself don't believe in the existence of God solely because the Bible or other preachers insist so. We believe in God since we witness a huge number of miracles in history. I myself live in a country known for frequent supernatural phenomena. It is because these miracles convince us that we believe in God, but we don't argue against scientific evidence.

[malikc6]

Feb 16, 2016 11:15:01 GMT 5 Cross said:

My status as a Roman Catholic Theistic who fully supports evolution should be useful to this thread.

First of all, Saint Augustine, a well-known and honored Catholic saint, encouraged Christians to always seek the truth. Wherever it may take them. He encouraged critical thinking and argued against a literal interpretation of Genesis. To be ignorant or detesting against scientific evidence and to stubbornly cling to only one's interpretation of something can actually be considered non-Christian behavior in a sense. Evolution is supported by anatomy, genetics, embryology, and paleontology. It has been proven that human embyros still possess tails and fish gills, and genetics and evolution come together to more or less confirm that humans WERE descended from an ancestor with gills and a tail.
The thing with the majority of conservative Christians/Catholics is that they have this delusion where they think evolution was made up for the sole purpose of trying to disprove God, but this can't be farther from the truth. Evolution was DISCOVERED, not made up. And evolution is simply a well-supported theory of biological phenomena that explains how organisms come to be and diversify. It has absolutely nothing to do with contesting against the Christian/Catholic doctrine. Charles Darwin was never even an atheist to begin with. He was raised a Christian and spent his later years as an agnostic.
Catholics such as myself don't believe in the existence of God solely because the Bible or other preachers insist so. We believe in God since we witness a huge number of miracles in history. I myself live in a country known for frequent supernatural phenomena. It is because these miracles convince us that we believe in God, but we don't argue against scientific evidence.

If only most people were like you.

[Life]

I am a believer and I perceive evolution as a facet of creation.

There was a time when I had my share of doubts about the theory of evolution! But than I saw a photo of a (shark) tooth that was partly serrated; experts promoted it as an example of a shark species caught in the act of developing serrated teeth to tackle new prey. It was convincing.

Believers should not feel threatened by scientific studies. Older interpretations should not be necessarily taken at face value.

[malikc6]

Mar 9, 2016 23:27:32 GMT 5 Life said:

I am a believer and I perceive evolution as a facet of creation.

There was a time when I had my share of doubts about the theory of evolution! But than I saw a photo of a (shark) tooth that was partly serrated; experts promoted it as an example of a shark species caught in the act of developing serrated teeth to tackle new prey. It was convincing.

Believers should not feel threatened by scientific studies. Older interpretations should not be necessarily taken at face value.

I have no problem with this. In fact there are SOME members in my family that sees evolution as creation, but sometimes it can mix with their biblical beliefs like certain stories like Adam and Eve. I used to know someone who thinks that Adam and Eve were the first humanoid primates...

What many creationists must realize is that their bible has been edited to fit a certain society. We really have no idea which is the "true" bible. For all we know, there could be many things we don't know about the bible. One thing I've speculated is that the "first" or "true" bible held a lot of answers and proof of certain civilizations that are no longer here, but was destroyed. Numerous cities were destroyed along with their cultures and anything that told anyone they ever existed. Bibles included. I think that most religions are for the most part intertwined, and it is depressing that people argue and kill each other over simply faith. 

[creature386]

I can recommend the Y-chromosomal Adam and the mitochondrial Eve (often misunderstood by creationists who try to prove the Bible by mentioning them) for those who need to reconcile beliefs.

I know that they almost certainly never met (and maybe did not even live in the same time), let alone mated (as this would defy nearly all known speciation events), but noone can prove they didn't. After all, it is not illogical for someone who believes that humans are special to believe that the event of human speciation was extraordinary.

[Cross]

Or you could try "Adam and Eve were Australopithecines or some primitive species of the genus Homo".