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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 24, 2019 5:33:21 GMT 5
Well, Carnotaurus is about equal in mass to the biggest Pelorovis; AFAIK, it's 2.1 tonnes
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Post by kekistani on Dec 24, 2019 5:48:09 GMT 5
That's the issue-Carnotaurus is not maneuverable. Those horns would allow Pelorovis to clip Carno from the front or sides at range, and being 4 legged and the defending animal, it can just turn to face its opponent. How not? It's very agile, fast, and athletic, and has the stamina to attempt continuous outflanking - heck, it does not need to do that. It could bite the head or face of the buffalo without needing to outflank, and that would do some serious damage. Biting the head would allow the buffalo to charge it and knock it over. Carnotaurus would get dragged underneath the buffalo should the buffalo surge forward while it is biting the face. Seeing as Carnotaurus is the assailant, it will use up its stamina and energy faster than the buffalo will, as the buffalo (judging off of the behavior of modern bovines) will stand its ground and turn to face its attacker without actually charging. |
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Post by kekistani on Dec 24, 2019 5:50:10 GMT 5
How not? It's very agile, fast, and athletic, and has the stamina to attempt continuous outflanking - heck, it does not need to do that. It could bite the head or face of the buffalo without needing to outflank, and that would do some serious damage. It’s probably going to end like a Lion vs a Buffalo. Lions use very different hunting strategies for bovines than Carnotaurus would. |
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denis
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Post by denis on Dec 24, 2019 5:50:47 GMT 5
Well, Carnotaurus is about equal in mass to the biggest Pelorovis; AFAIK, it's 2.1 tonnes I actually like a source of that most sites I’ve seen say 1.43 tons. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 24, 2019 5:57:10 GMT 5
How not? It's very agile, fast, and athletic, and has the stamina to attempt continuous outflanking - heck, it does not need to do that. It could bite the head or face of the buffalo without needing to outflank, and that would do some serious damage. Biting the head would allow the buffalo to charge it and knock it over. Carnotaurus would get dragged underneath the buffalo should the buffalo surge forward while it is biting the face. Seeing as Carnotaurus is the assailant, it will use up its stamina and energy faster than the buffalo will, as the buffalo (judging off of the behavior of modern bovines) will stand its ground and turn to face its attacker without actually charging. That's only if Carnotaurus would just stand there and let it happen. It's adapted to deliver quick, fast bites to prey, and I could certainly see it delivering a bite and then leaping out of the way. Regarding outflanking, that is true. However, I'm sure at least some of the time it could flank and attack as it is very good at it. |
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Post by kekistani on Dec 24, 2019 5:59:53 GMT 5
Biting the head would allow the buffalo to charge it and knock it over. Carnotaurus would get dragged underneath the buffalo should the buffalo surge forward while it is biting the face. Seeing as Carnotaurus is the assailant, it will use up its stamina and energy faster than the buffalo will, as the buffalo (judging off of the behavior of modern bovines) will stand its ground and turn to face its attacker without actually charging. That's only if Carnotaurus would just stand there and let it happen. It's adapted to deliver quick, fast bites to prey, and I could certainly see it delivering a bite and then leaping out of the way. Regarding outflanking, that is true. However, I'm sure at least some of the time it could flank and attack as it is very good at it. Going in front of an angry bovine in the first place isn't a good idea, and a very good amount of Pelorovis' head has that horny 'cap' on it. That will be presented to Carnotaurus, not the soft nose. Jerjking and tossing its head would allow Pelorovis to prevent Carnotaurus from biting effectively. Biting the face and leaping away (if it CAN bite it) will not do fight-ending damage and offers more risk than reward. |
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Post by kekistani on Dec 24, 2019 6:00:37 GMT 5
Well, Carnotaurus is about equal in mass to the biggest Pelorovis; AFAIK, it's 2.1 tonnes I actually like a source of that most sites I’ve seen say 1.43 tons. Carnotaurus has been weighed at anywhere between 1-2.1 tons. 1.43 is just as likely as 2.1. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 24, 2019 16:29:20 GMT 5
That's only if Carnotaurus would just stand there and let it happen. It's adapted to deliver quick, fast bites to prey, and I could certainly see it delivering a bite and then leaping out of the way. Regarding outflanking, that is true. However, I'm sure at least some of the time it could flank and attack as it is very good at it. Going in front of an angry bovine in the first place isn't a good idea, and a very good amount of Pelorovis' head has that horny 'cap' on it. That will be presented to Carnotaurus, not the soft nose. Jerjking and tossing its head would allow Pelorovis to prevent Carnotaurus from biting effectively. Biting the face and leaping away (if it CAN bite it) will not do fight-ending damage and offers more risk than reward. Now that you mention it, that's true. But, in all honesty, that was probably a bit of just overenthusiastic speculation on my part. That probably wouldn't happen at ALL, looking back on it. Another thing: Carnotaurus may have a large mass advantage here. The average Pelorovis is about 1.25 tonnes, while Carnotaurus mass estimates range from 1.35 to 2.6 tonnes - averaging to ~2 tonnes. denis, that's something you may wish to consider rengarding weight. I'd deffo back Carno with the mass advantage. |
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denis
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Post by denis on Dec 25, 2019 3:47:47 GMT 5
Going in front of an angry bovine in the first place isn't a good idea, and a very good amount of Pelorovis' head has that horny 'cap' on it. That will be presented to Carnotaurus, not the soft nose. Jerjking and tossing its head would allow Pelorovis to prevent Carnotaurus from biting effectively. Biting the face and leaping away (if it CAN bite it) will not do fight-ending damage and offers more risk than reward. Now that you mention it, that's true. But, in all honesty, that was probably a bit of just overenthusiastic speculation on my part. That probably wouldn't happen at ALL, looking back on it. Another thing: Carnotaurus may have a large mass advantage here. The average Pelorovis is about 1.25 tonnes, while Carnotaurus mass estimates range from 1.35 to 2.6 tonnes - averaging to ~2 tonnes. denis , that's something you may wish to consider rengarding weight. I'd deffo back Carno with the mass advantage. I thought the average was 1.43 tonnes. But even if Carnotaurus has the mass advantages, I don’t think it would do well against an opponent slightly smaller with horns that are literally huge. But for now I’m going to stick with 1.43 tonnes for Carnotaurus. Here is Carnotaurus, probably one of the most accurate I found so far:  According to Harry the Fox, Carnotaurus only weighed 1000 kg, although I think that’s average size. Here’s a size comparison of Pelorovis Antiquus:  Like you said average males were 1.25 tonnes, but the largest male was probably 2.2 tonnes. Average Carnotaurus May have been smaller, max Carnotaurus would’ve still been smaller. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 25, 2019 4:08:05 GMT 5
Err...not quite. Volumetric models from research journals are usually better than DeviantArt unless the artist is very experienced. Going by that, Carnotaurus has over 60% mass advantage - surely THAT is enough?
Regarding average - we only have 1 Carnotaurus. We cannot have an average until more are found.
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denis
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Post by denis on Dec 25, 2019 19:43:19 GMT 5
Err...not quite. Volumetric models from research journals are usually better than DeviantArt unless the artist is very experienced. Going by that, Carnotaurus has over 60% mass advantage - surely THAT is enough? Regarding average - we only have 1 Carnotaurus. We cannot have an average until more are found. We shouldn’t be questioning the mass though, we should question can Carnotaurus take on prey that don’t run but fight back. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 25, 2019 20:12:24 GMT 5
It certainly can, no? Several bites would be sufficient to kill Pelorovis sooner or later.
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denis
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Post by denis on Dec 25, 2019 23:08:59 GMT 5
It certainly can, no? Several bites would be sufficient to kill Pelorovis sooner or later. Pretty sure it would be gore to death before that happens. Buffalos were really fast though this one may be a bit slower due to the size of those horns. |
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Post by kekistani on Dec 26, 2019 0:08:29 GMT 5
It certainly can, no? Several bites would be sufficient to kill Pelorovis sooner or later. Pretty sure it would be gore to death before that happens. Buffalos were really fast though this one may be a bit slower due to the size of those horns. Movement speed doesn't matter in this fight-Bovines stand their ground when attacked, which gives Pelorovis the advantage. ALl it has to do is turn to face Carnotaurus' attacks. Eventually the carnivore is going to run out of stamina. Pelorovis has the advantage in reaching length and size. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Dec 26, 2019 1:11:28 GMT 5
It certainly can, no? Several bites would be sufficient to kill Pelorovis sooner or later. Pretty sure it would be gore to death before that happens. Buffalos were really fast though this one may be a bit slower due to the size of those horns. Err...the horns are not good for goring. Too long and spread out. |
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