|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 9, 2016 22:39:06 GMT 5
Not quite, the expansion does not mean the universe makes more galaxies, merely that the distances of the stuff within it drive apart which means its density becomes lower.
Moreover, the heat death is not so much a result of the expansion (expansion could cause a Big Rip though, where the atoms get ripped apart), but of the 2nd law of thermodynamics which makes the universe approach an equal heat distribution (assuming such an equilibrium exists, the paper by Carroll and Chen which broly posted above doubts this).
|
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 9, 2016 22:44:45 GMT 5
Not quite, the expansion does not mean the universe makes more galaxies, merely that the distances of the stuff within it drive apart which means its density becomes lower. Moreover, the heat death is not so much a result of the expansion (expansion could cause a Big Rip though, where the atoms get ripped apart), but of the 2nd law of thermodynamics which makes the universe approach an equal heat distribution (assuming such an equilibrium exists, the paper by Carroll and Chen which broly posted above doubts this). I continue to become confused. Limitless space (or rather ever increasing space) yet a very long and possibly indefinite end of the universe, but atoms still present... and yet nothing would happen or potentially nothing would happen?? The Big Rip to me sounds more likely than the Heat Death. |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 9, 2016 23:18:56 GMT 5
Limitless space (or rather ever increasing space) yet a very long and possibly indefinite end of the universe, but atoms still present... and yet nothing would happen or potentially nothing would happen?? The Big Rip to me sounds more likely than the Heat Death. They are not mutually exclusive. The Big Rip refers to the atoms losing their electrons (which is predicted to happen before the heat death). Free energy would still exist, as these particles still exist and still have energy, they only lose that usable energy once the heat death happens. As said a few times before, there may be a scenario where something can happen given enough time, namely spontaneous entropy decreases which could trigger a new Big Bang. So yeah, the thread's question basically revolves around the question whether spontaneous entropy decreases are possible. If they are, a Big Bang will eventually happen. |
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 9, 2016 23:21:45 GMT 5
Limitless space (or rather ever increasing space) yet a very long and possibly indefinite end of the universe, but atoms still present... and yet nothing would happen or potentially nothing would happen?? The Big Rip to me sounds more likely than the Heat Death. They are not mutually exclusive. The Big Rip refers to the atoms losing their electrons (which is predicted to happen before the heat death). Free energy would still exist, as these particles still exist and still have energy, they only lose that usable energy once the heat death happens. As said a few times before, there may be a scenario where something can happen given enough time, namely spontaneous entropy decreases which could trigger a new Big Bang. So yeah, the thread's question basically revolves around the question whether spontaneous entropy decreases are possible. If they are, a Big Bang will eventually happen. Assuming there are intelligent organisms living very near these events, can you personally picture any type of technology capable of surviving an event like that, or somehow "escaping?" Basically do you see a way out for potential Level 3-4 alien civilizations? |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 9, 2016 23:23:37 GMT 5
The only way I can think of would be creating pocket universes.
|
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 9, 2016 23:24:56 GMT 5
The only way I can think of would be creating pocket universes. Or escaping into another dimension? |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 9, 2016 23:29:00 GMT 5
In case you use the word dimension in a way that is synonymous to universe (since "dimension" is actually a mathematical term), this is basically equivalent to what I've just said, since a newly created universe would be the only one accessible to inhabitants of this universe (unless inter-universal wormholes are possible, a topic about which I haven't done much research).
|
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 9, 2016 23:35:47 GMT 5
In case you use the word dimension in a way that is synonymous to universe (since "dimension" is actually a mathematical term), this is basically equivalent to what I've just said, since a newly created universe would be the only one accessible to inhabitants of this universe (unless inter-universal wormholes are possible, a topic about which I haven't done much research). I like the idea of making a pocket universe but I have no idea how one would manage that. I do feel like it would begin with mastering artificial gravity and for some reason, I feel like we would need Hawking Radiation for that. Now I'm excited for this discussion lol. The idea of other universes tend to just exist in fiction but there could be something more to this than I originally thought. |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 9, 2016 23:43:10 GMT 5
I've thought about it and maybe the idea of traveling to another already existing universe can make some sense in two scenarios:
-Black holes contain baby universes (though Hawking is no fan of this idea).
-Brane cosmology is true and there is a higher dimension which connects different universes (you can imagine the higher dimension as a membrane and different universes as small stripes of it). In this case, inter-universal wormholes would be possible and "fold" the membrane in a way which connects two different universes. Constructing such a wormhole would be hard for 3 or 4-level aliens though. Controlling the energy of a galaxy or of a supercluster is puny in comparison to controlling super-universal dimensions-
If neither of these is true, inter-universal travel is impossible, since technobabble cannot change the way reality fundamentally behaves.
|
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 10, 2016 0:07:29 GMT 5
I've thought about it and maybe the idea of traveling to another already existing universe can make some sense in two scenarios: -Black holes contain baby universes (though Hawking is no fan of this idea). -Brane cosmology is true and there is a higher dimension which connects different universes (you can imagine the higher dimension as a membrane and different universes as small stripes of it). In this case, inter-universal wormholes would be possible and "fold" the membrane in a way which connects two different universes. Constructing such a wormhole would be hard for 3 or 4-level aliens though. Controlling the energy of a galaxy or of a supercluster is puny in comparison to controlling super-universal dimensions- If neither of these is true, inter-universal travel is impossible, since technobabble cannot change the way reality fundamentally behaves. If one could fully utilize hawking radiation, would it really be all that hard? Especially if one could control a Supercluster. It doesn't seem that puny to me. A Supercluster is pretty major. Like learning Check and then the Checkmate. Of course, all of this is just speculation. |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 10, 2016 0:19:48 GMT 5
Given that I don't even have the slightest clue about the magnitude of energy needed to perform such a task (or if energy is even the issue at all), I cannot answer. I wonder if there are any sources concerning themselves with such topics.
|
|
|
|
Post by malikc6 on Sept 10, 2016 0:42:29 GMT 5
Given that I don't even have the slightest clue about the magnitude of energy needed to perform such a task (or if energy is even the issue at all), I cannot answer. I wonder if there are any sources concerning themselves with such topics. If there are other planes of existences, shouldn't it be possible in some way to "escape" this reality? Can the same thing be asked if other lifeforms existed in a superultramega computer where it has its own universe with beings with free will? The idea of us being inside a simulated reality apparently is becoming a bit more accepted. |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Sept 10, 2016 0:52:04 GMT 5
Escaping to other planes of existence would only be possible if they are in any way connected (I already gave the example of brane cosmology to show a possible connection). If they are utterly causally disconnected, it is logically impossible to get from one to the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Oct 13, 2016 2:43:03 GMT 5
I have a question related to cosmic history and entropy.
I've heard the universe was once in a state permeated by a hot, uniform gas. Doesn't this sound like a high entropy state? If so, how did it get in the present state?
|
|
