Tyrannosaurus rex versus Spinosaurus aegyptiacus

[rock]

May 1, 2019 18:50:11 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Who were you on there?

And good choice to have moved here. A much better place!

my username was hippo fan 123

[dinosauria101]

Sorry for necroing this, just thought I'd share a neat find I made: sauropodomorphlair.blogspot.com/2013/08/

While our overall knowledge of Spino has changed a hell of a lot since 2014, its neural spines haven't. I think if it had muscle/fat/etc over its neural spines, Franoys' 7.5 tonne MSNM V 4047 would weigh at least 9-10 tonnes. That's a substantial size advantage over the average ~6 tonne Tyrannosaurus, and if this holds up I may lean towards Spinosaurus on land AND water due to mass advantage.

[denis]

Actually Dinosauria, Spinosaurus is now estimated to weigh around 7 tons max. Tyrannosaurus rex was heavier than the Spinosaurus. Not to mention, Tyrannosaurus rex was far smarter

[dinosauria101]

Well, thing is, intelligence is not gonna be much of a role here, if at all - the disparity (if there is one) is so small it's irrelevant.

As for Spinosaurus' mass, yes, many agree on 7-7.5 tonnes these days. Just saying, if its neural spines had a ridge of muscle it could have been larger, and therefore large enough to win to the average Tyrannosaurus on land and water.

[denis]

Jan 3, 2020 17:44:11 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Well, thing is, intelligence is not gonna be much of a role here, if at all - the disparity (if there is one) is so small it's irrelevant.

As for Spinosaurus' mass, yes, many agree on 7-7.5 tonnes these days. Just saying, if its neural spines had a ridge of muscle it could have been larger, and therefore large enough to win to the average Tyrannosaurus on land and water.

Errrr... still don’t think that. Tyrannosaurus rex even averaged size took down large and dangerous prey.

[dinosauria101]

Jan 3, 2020 17:51:05 GMT 5 denis said:

Jan 3, 2020 17:44:11 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Well, thing is, intelligence is not gonna be much of a role here, if at all - the disparity (if there is one) is so small it's irrelevant.

As for Spinosaurus' mass, yes, many agree on 7-7.5 tonnes these days. Just saying, if its neural spines had a ridge of muscle it could have been larger, and therefore large enough to win to the average Tyrannosaurus on land and water.

Errrr... still don’t think that. Tyrannosaurus rex even averaged size took down large and dangerous prey.

Hunting=/=fighting. It's likely that Tyrannosaurus ambushed this prey that was in less than optimal health - that's what ALL predators do.

[denis]

Jan 3, 2020 17:55:15 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Jan 3, 2020 17:51:05 GMT 5 denis said:

Errrr... still don’t think that. Tyrannosaurus rex even averaged size took down large and dangerous prey.

Hunting=/=fighting. It's likely that Tyrannosaurus ambushed this prey that was in less than optimal health - that's what ALL predators do.

Hunting=fighting experience when fighting herbivores. But either way Spinosaurus wasn’t designed to take down something as big as a T.rex.

[dinosauria101]

Jan 3, 2020 18:31:32 GMT 5 denis said:

Jan 3, 2020 17:55:15 GMT 5 dinosauria101 said:

Hunting=/=fighting. It's likely that Tyrannosaurus ambushed this prey that was in less than optimal health - that's what ALL predators do.

Hunting=fighting experience when fighting herbivores. But either way Spinosaurus wasn’t designed to take down something as big as a T.rex.

Ambushing a sick herbivore isn;t exactly the same as fighting a larger, alert carnivore (assuming of course the sail was muscle).

As for Spinosaurus, this may be of interest:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_river_dolphin

Later, it was shown that males were larger than females and are documented wielding an aggressive sexual behavior in the wild and in captivity. Males often have a significant degree of damage in the dorsal, caudal, and pectoral fins as well as the blowhole due to bites and abrasions, in addition to the numerous secondary teeth-raking scars. This suggests fierce competition for access to females, with a polygynous mating system, though polyandry and promiscuity cannot be excluded.

editors.eol.org/eoearth/wiki/Amazon_River_dolphin

Botos do not appear to establish a social hierarchy through aggression in captivity, but violent acts are not uncommon and have even resulted in the death of some individuals.
However, males are now known to be larger than females, and very aggressive sexual behavior in males has been observed. Some authors have observed hostility between pink botos in the wild, while others have noted extremely aggressive activity during copulation in captivity. Males also have a higher degree of damaged fins, flukes, and blowholes due to biting and abrasion, in addition to more abundant scarring due to tooth-raking. This evidence suggests that there may be intense competition for access to females.

www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2009/06/dolphins/

The males beat the hell out of each other," says Martin. "They are brutal. They can snap each other's jaws, tails, flippers, lacerate blowholes. The large males are literally covered with scar tissue.

So basically, river dolphins that have much thinner and weaker jaws than Spinosaurus, as well as much smaller teeth and no other weapons (they look like this, link) are able to kill fairly good size animals which would also have a layer of protection (blubber). The jaws of Spinosaurus are more robust and have much bigger teeth in them (link), and it has very powerful arms with massive claws that could also do some serious damage. I think a 9-10 tonne Spinosaurus would be able to cause some serious injuries to a 6 tonne Tyrannosaurus on land, and even a 7.5 tonne one would be able to inflict its fair share of damage in shallow or deep water. 

[jdangerousdinosaur]

Probably best to delete this posts's content - dinosauria

[denis]

Probably best to delete this posts's content - dinosauria

[creature386]

jdangerousdinosaur
Feel free to restore the content of your post if it was not too long and if you can still remember it.
Dinosauria was not supposed to do this and admits that he went too far.

Moreover, if you don't mind, I undid your recent name change. If you have beef with dinosauria, fine, but do not drag the forum into this. No reason to drag morale down like that.

[dinosauria101]

Apologies, I was under the impression that that post was an attack on me

[dinosauria101]

In any case, now that that is out of the way, wasn't the discussion about what Spinosaurus GDI was best? I don't recall mentioning what the neural spines may have supported anywhere on the discord

[6f5e4d]

A controversial battle, this seems to be. So to simplify, Tyrannosaurus was a more adept fighter on land, but the bite force that would help it on land is not as effective in the water, where Spinosaurus can dominate it better. Whoever wins depends on where the battle takes place.

[Supercommunist]

I know in recent years this match has basically boiled down to t-rex wins on land and spinosaurus wins in water.

But I am actually kind of wondering whether spinosaurus actually does win in water. Jaguars are able to prey on decent sized caiman in water and spinosaur's head is more like a false gharials than a crocodiles.

Currently I am not entirely sure if I would favor a tomistoma over a similar sized bear or cat even in water.

On a similar note, I am not sure I would favor a leopard seal or a seal lion over a similar sized polar bear in aquatic fight.

Granted jaguars and polar bears are probably much better swimmers than tyannosaurus was but still I am curious as to whether superior aquatic mobility is enough for a spinosaurus to kill a similar sized macropredator.