Grey Wolf V Spotted Hyena

[theropod]

I suppose the gape angle required for the teeth to bite something and the angle of the muscle fibres do play a role too, I merely found it strange, because usually brevirostry is a means to improve, not reduce the mechanical advantage of the jaw tips.
If these data are correct, then yes, hyenas don’t actually have the stronger bite, what’s puzzling is that the heavily durophagous animal has the weaker bite force, despite its more robust skull. Then some other factor besides bite force is what makes them such good bone crushers…

So, what about those other factors that supposedly made wolf bites more effective?

[Runic]

Their dentition allows them to create larger wounds than either cat or hyena.

[theropod]

Their dentition allows their canine-incisor-complex to create relatively larger wounds, because it encompasses a greater volume and because the canines are stronger (Biknevicius et al. 1996).
That doesn’t equal to create larger wounds at equal body mass. Hyaenids probably rely more on their stronger canines (Van Valkenburg & Ruff 1987), premolars and molars by comparison.

Also, the claimed combination of being able to grapple with the mouth and being able to cause larger wounds is misleading, since for grappling it’s a requirement to not sever the gripped part, i.e. be worse at tearing (which is the reason for crocodilian teeth being blunt and conical). A better phrasing would be "to be able to affect larger areas with an anterior bite".

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References:
www.researchgate.net/publication/254313919_Incisor_size_and_shape_implications_for_feeding_behaviors_in_saber-toothed_cats
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.1987.tb02910.x/abstract

[Runic]

Jul 19, 2014 18:38:33 GMT 5 theropod said:

Their dentition allows their canine-incisor-complex to create relatively larger wounds, because it encompasses a greater volume and because the canines are stronger (Biknevicius et al. 1996).
That doesn’t equal to create larger wounds at equal body mass. Hyaenids probably rely more on their stronger canines (Van Valkenburg & Ruff 1987), premolars and molars by comparison.

Also, the claimed combination of being able to grapple with the mouth and being able to cause larger wounds is misleading, since for grappling it’s a requirement to not sever the gripped part, i.e. be worse at tearing (which is the reason for crocodilian teeth being blunt and conical). A better phrasing would be "to be able to affect larger areas with an anterior bite".

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References:
www.researchgate.net/publication/254313919_Incisor_size_and_shape_implications_for_feeding_behaviors_in_saber-toothed_cats
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.1987.tb02910.x/abstract

The wounds and the grappling go hand in hand. There's no middle ground. Thus why you never hear of wolves being ripped apart, because once they bite they don't need to release to do damage over time.

[theropod]

They can do damage over time, but that will be crushing and puncturing–if it were tearing large wounds, that would inevitably lead to its grip being released, unless you are saying wolves can magically use their jaws for tearing while at the same time using them for grasping.

[malikc6]

After reading all of this, I guess the hyena bites harder in terms of crushing bone rather than tearing flesh like wolves. So I guess in the end, the hyena has a stronger bite, but the wolf has a more effective bite.

[Infinity Blade]

Found another study. According to it, a ~34.7 kilogram C. l. lupus bites with a force of ~593N at the canines. A ~69.1 kilogram C. crocuta bites with a force of ~773N at the canines.

69.1/34.7=1.99135446685879³√x=1.258102979476193²=1.582823106966874*593=~938.6141024313565N.

So going from the figures in the study and putting the two at the same size, C. l. lupus bites ~21% harder than C. crocuta at parity. I'm rather baffled frankly...correct me if there's anything wrong here btw.

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References:
- Bite club: comparative bite force in big biting mammals and the prediction of predatory behavior in fossil taxa (Wroe et al., 2005)

[Runic]

Jul 20, 2014 1:49:58 GMT 5 theropod said:

They can do damage over time, but that will be crushing and puncturing–if it were tearing large wounds, that would inevitably lead to its grip being released, unless you are saying wolves can magically use their jaws for tearing while at the same time using them for grasping.

it's not magic since they do.

[theropod]

And I suppose you are gonna bring evidence for that in one of your subsequent posts.

[LeopJag]

Jul 20, 2014 1:49:58 GMT 5 theropod said:

They can do damage over time, but that will be crushing and puncturing–if it were tearing large wounds, that would inevitably lead to its grip being released, unless you are saying wolves can magically use their jaws for tearing while at the same time using them for grasping.

lol i don't think there is any mammal that can do that with its mouth alone without having to open and close its jaws...

[theropod]

That’s the point, it is plain impossible to at the same time tear effectively and retain a grip on the thing which you are tearing up. It translates to using a razor blade as a meathook.

[Ceratodromeus]

I would give this to the spotted hyena by an oh-so-slim margin.

[jhg]

I root for the wolf but I think that may be a losing vote.

[Runic]

Jul 27, 2014 11:35:59 GMT 5 Runic said:

Jul 20, 2014 1:49:58 GMT 5 theropod said:

They can do damage over time, but that will be crushing and puncturing–if it were tearing large wounds, that would inevitably lead to its grip being released, unless you are saying wolves can magically use their jaws for tearing while at the same time using them for grasping.

it's not magic since they do.

Just now seeing this, like literally.

Yes, Wolves can cause wounds while still maintaining their grip. I don't know if there is a term for it but it happens because they when they bite down they use the back part of their jaws and pull and tear against the flesh while the part they're actually gripping is only around the canines.

It's akin to using hooked shears so to speak. That's how they deal out those wounds on the back ends of Elk. They bite and hold on opening wounds if you pay close attention. There's multiple ways to tear something, some are much more messy than others, but nevertheless if it tears the job is accomplished.

[Deleted]

This seems pretty even at parity.