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Post by creature386 on Jun 19, 2013 13:13:13 GMT 5
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 19, 2013 13:32:16 GMT 5
According to some of modern Chrisitianity. Nevertheless this seems to have almost no scriptural support. Several descriptions of it seem to be explicit depictions of physical pain and threat, most often with fire: "...and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew, 13:50 "...where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched." Mark 9:48 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28 |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 19, 2013 14:21:38 GMT 5
I am aware of these descriptions, but it seems like the bible does not describe how hell was created (At least the imagination of people who try to take the bible as literally as they can varies. Some believe the human gets sent into hell, some believe people arrive there because of their sins, without getting sent there.), so I picked what modern Christianity wrote.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 21, 2013 5:32:17 GMT 5
So God's psychologically is "my way or hell". Nice mentality, and people wonder why I criticize religion so often. The accepted facts of religion are that; 1. God created people 2. God is all good and loving 3. God's will is the most powerful entity in the universe. But those are contradictory. If God created people and he is all good and loving, why are there so many corrupt and evil souls? If people were created by God, who is all loving, then why do many souls suffer an eternity hell? Therefore, either God is not all powerful, or he is not all good, it's one or the other. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Jun 21, 2013 6:39:21 GMT 5
God is supposed to be an all knowing and all powerful being, which means he (assuming "god" has a gender and is male) knew all the things, could have done something about and chose not too.
Imo this means one of 4 things
1: god is not all knowing
2: god is not all powerful
3: god doesnt give a fly f*ck about anything
4: there is no god
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Post by creature386 on Jun 21, 2013 14:10:20 GMT 5
So God's psychologically is "my way or hell". According to the bible, yes. Coherentsheaf has shown the quote. people wonder why I criticize religion so often. The problem is that not all Christians believe in the things written in the bible. There are some who only believe what their pastors say. They often don't view the hell as a place. Here is what my link wrote:Therefore, they view the hell as a consequence of people's freedom. |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 22, 2013 15:09:14 GMT 5
God is supposed to be an all knowing and all powerful being, which means he (assuming "god" has a gender and is male) knew all the things, could have done something about and chose not too. Imo this means one of 4 things 1: god is not all knowing 2: god is not all powerful 3: god doesnt give a fly f*ck about anything 4: there is no god Note that theistic philosophers are likely to point out that god might have had a sufficient moral reason for not acting (this is called skeptical theism). |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Jun 22, 2013 20:38:51 GMT 5
God is supposed to be an all knowing and all powerful being, which means he (assuming "god" has a gender and is male) knew all the things, could have done something about and chose not too. Imo this means one of 4 things 1: god is not all knowing 2: god is not all powerful 3: god doesnt give a fly f*ck about anything 4: there is no god Note that theistic philosophers are likely to point out that god might have had a sufficient moral reason for not acting (this is called skeptical theism). if he was really all powerful then he could have altered reality without conflict with his morals. All powerful means nothing is outside your capabilites, there is nothing you cannot do and no limits on how you can do it. So I would call that a shitty excuse. |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 22, 2013 23:13:46 GMT 5
Note that theistic philosophers are likely to point out that god might have had a sufficient moral reason for not acting (this is called skeptical theism). if he was really all powerful then he could have altered reality without conflict with his morals. All powerful means nothing is outside your capabilites, there is nothing you cannot do and no limits on how you can do it. So I would call that a shitty excuse. i think that most theist use a different definition of all powerfull, namely that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. So if it is mpssible to create a world that satisfies its arbitrary moral commands without violating everything I hold sacred it wont. |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 22, 2013 23:22:33 GMT 5
i think that most theist use a different definition of all powerful, namely that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. I remember a pastor gave that answer when someone asked "Could God create a rock what is so heavy that he couldn't lift it?" (in other words: Could he create something what limits his power?). |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 22, 2013 23:26:30 GMT 5
i think that most theist use a different definition of all powerful, namely that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. I remember a pastor gave that answer when someone asked "Could God create a rock what is so heavy that he couldn't lift it?" (in other words: Could he create something what limits his power?). Wel it could create the rock and then lift it. Why? It can do the impossible! |
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Post by creature386 on Jun 22, 2013 23:28:54 GMT 5
The question was if it can create something what is in some way more powerful than it, or somehow limits it's power. As this would make no sense, the response was that his creations have to make sense.
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 22, 2013 23:36:55 GMT 5
The question was if it can create something what is in some way more powerful than it, or somehow limits it's power. As this would make no sense, the response was that his creations have to make sense. Sure it could create something more powerful, and then still be more powerful  ! It can do the impossible. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Jun 23, 2013 14:05:08 GMT 5
if he was really all powerful then he could have altered reality without conflict with his morals. All powerful means nothing is outside your capabilites, there is nothing you cannot do and no limits on how you can do it. So I would call that a shitty excuse. i think that most theist use a different definition of all powerfull, namely that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. So if it is mpssible to create a world that satisfies its arbitrary moral commands without violating everything I hold sacred it wont. if your power is limited,you are not all powerful. |
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 23, 2013 14:20:17 GMT 5
i think that most theist use a different definition of all powerfull, namely that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. So if it is mpssible to create a world that satisfies its arbitrary moral commands without violating everything I hold sacred it wont. if your power is limited,you are not all powerful. This is unimportant. Then define a new word, like demiomnipotent that means that god can do everything that is either logically or metaphysically possible. I think most intelligent christians would have no problem admitting that their god, by these definitions, is not supposed to be allpowerful but demiomnipotent. |
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! It can do the impossible.