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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 2, 2013 23:56:11 GMT 5
One of the most common misconceptions is that a simply because I am not a part of any religion, that I'm an atheist. That's not true, I do believe that there is a God, but I don't see the point in following a religion. The main reason to why I believe in God, is because something cannot come out of nothing. Our Universe could not have came out of the blue, nor is it agreed to be infinite. Therefore there must have been an initial source of the creation. Read a summary the Aquinas: web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web%20publishing/aquinasfiveways_argumentanalysis.htmThere must have been a God to create the universe, as matter cannot come spontaneously, as there must have been a God to create life, as DNA did not come spontaneously. However, that does not mean that I am a part of a religion. I don't believe in the Bible and Jesus, nor do I believe in any other religion. That makes me a deist, believe in God but not in any formal religion. Are there any other deists out there? |
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Post by theropod on Jun 3, 2013 0:00:58 GMT 5
But then, were did god come from?
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 3, 2013 0:03:25 GMT 5
That's a good question which kept me atheist for a long time, but the problem is, using such logic we could keep questioning into infinity.
Where did the universe come from? Where did God come from? Where did the source of God come from? Where did the source of the source of God come from? Etc...
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Post by theropod on Jun 3, 2013 0:05:46 GMT 5
Yes, but you already took one step to that by assuming there must be a god that created the universe. Why couldn't the universe just have been there, why is it more likely that before that there was a god? And if you assume there was a god, shouldn't you consequently also ask were he's from, if you already did so with the universe?
Where did the universe come from? We don’t know exactly, but at least we know the universe does exist. It doesn’t really matter whether it’s who/what made the universe, or who/what made the thing that made the universe etc. The universe is the first thing (actually, given that the universe came into being together with spacetime, it is literally the first thing) we have any evidence for existing, and whatever came before that, if there can even be such a concept as "before the universe", is complete conjecture. So if there’s any logical point to draw the line, wouldn’t that be with the origin of the universe, and not some arbitrary point in "time" before that, that we don’t even know existed?
I think the problem I tend to have with any argument for the existence of god is that by definition, I think the "supernatural" can not exist, because everything that exists is automatically part of the natural universe, even if it is a part we do not (yet) understand. So if a "god" really existed, then it would just be some form of previously unknown, supposedly very powerful alien lifeform, but not a "god" at all. And it’s already been discussed that the concept of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent being is both self-contradictory and inconsistent with the real state of the universe or any religion’s envisioning of a god.
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 3, 2013 0:13:11 GMT 5
Fair enough you believe that, I did too for a long time. One of the main reasons many theists would avoid this question, is because they assume that God is "timeless".
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Post by theropod on Jun 3, 2013 1:01:43 GMT 5
I don't know what exactly that means, or what the belief is founded on. You wrote the reason why you do believe in god is that someone must have created the universe because it cannot have just appeared. The same can be said for god and so forth. I see no reason why the universe must have been created, but not god, but everyone is entitled to ones own belief.
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Fragillimus335
Member
Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on Jun 3, 2013 3:43:39 GMT 5
I feel that my brain, and the collective brains of humanity can't even begin to grasp the origin of the universe, and for this reason, I choose to think that there is a god of some kind, but it isn't one of the myriad of gods humans have created. I also believe that all the phenomena that have occurred in this universe since its creation are of natural origin.
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Jun 3, 2013 3:52:03 GMT 5
Perhaps there is some force of creation that exist before all other things but I highly doubt it is any of the "gods" people like to worship.
I am capable of excepting that I may never understand the origin of all things but that os hardly a reason to believe in a god.
Throughout history people have created fictional beings(goda) to help explain the things they cannot understand, the origin of all things is no different.
So play make believe to help ease your mind, I will wait for the real answers to surface.
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Post by Runic on Jun 3, 2013 10:46:48 GMT 5
My main question is..... what the hell created time? Forget the creation of the universe and all that. Where did time originate?
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Post by Vodmeister on Jun 3, 2013 10:55:57 GMT 5
Big Bang explosion?
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Post by theropod on Jun 3, 2013 20:09:23 GMT 5
That's what created the universe. If something was before it, there must also have been time, because without time, there's no "before".
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Post by creature386 on Jun 3, 2013 23:12:33 GMT 5
The problem with time is that it behaves similar to 1/x. When you put in 0, everything fails. Therefore this topic is a bit complex. I will try to post more on that later. Vodmeister, I know the Aquinas arguments. I also mentioned them once on carnivora. |
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Post by theropod on Jun 4, 2013 1:20:12 GMT 5
How do we know time behaves like that?
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Post by creature386 on Jun 4, 2013 1:22:22 GMT 5
It doesn't, this was a comparison to show the problems with inputting 0.
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Post by coherentsheaf on Jun 4, 2013 1:31:23 GMT 5
I feel that my brain, and the collective brains of humanity can't even begin to grasp the origin of the universe, and for this reason, I choose to think that there is a god of some kind, but it isn't one of the myriad of gods humans have created. I also believe that all the phenomena that have occurred in this universe since its creation are of natural origin. Thats a non sequitur. If the origin cannot be explained, this does not automatically mean that there was some entity behind it with attributes consistent with a god. It just means we do not kno what happened. |
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