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Post by Infinity Blade on May 4, 2014 6:42:16 GMT 5
So what you're basically saying is that other people have also claimed that birds are not immune to infection. Yeah, we get it, is there anything new to add? Yes, you say the infection may have not taken place in the first place. show me an account of a eagle being imto pasteuella.,mune I said the infection may not have taken place to begin with because the cat may not have had it in the first place. Was it really that hard to realize? For the third time, WE (including myself) ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT EAGLES ARE NOT IMMUNE TO THESE INFECTIONS. I don't need to find accounts of eagles being immune to pasteurella as I'm aware of the limitations of these animals. Don't twist my words and make it sound as if I actually support the notion of them being immune to said infection (which wasn't even brought up by the eagle supporters).
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 6:57:29 GMT 5
Sorry its just that it sounded like you were saying eagles can be immune to it
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Post by theropod on May 4, 2014 13:24:09 GMT 5
WeaselNone of the cats in question here is a big cat as in pantherinae, and I never wrote such a thing. I suggest you try to read more carefully the next time before making fun of someone. let me get one thing straight, feral cats average between 3.3 and 4.5kg feral cats average between 3.3 and 4.5kg→, the females "towards the lower end of this range". For you, that means they definitely average above 7lb. Your argument revolved around infection is plain laughable. Firstly, infection takes a lot of time to kill. Secondly, no animal known to science actively relies on infection to kill something. Thirdly, it’s not guaranteed that the eagle would have died–you don’t even know whether the cat managed to bite more than a mouthful of feathers. And finally, even if your assertion was correct and the eagle would have died, the eagle still killed the cat first and in a struggle. It is very strange how that subadult coyote weighing 13.5kg with part of it already eaten was called an adult in the scientific paper describing the encounter, don’t you think? That was never my point. My point was that you were saying cats had killed those prey items too, which is firstly untrue and secondly irrelevant. And you still haven”t managed to give me reasons why the cat will be able to do that better than the eagle can reposition its talons…
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 21:36:56 GMT 5
I never made fun of anyone eh not really where did you get that source from? Most of the one I have seen say they average 7.3 pounds (feral) I don't know how people debate on these forums but in carnivora if one animal dies but the other animal dies from its wounds no one wins I sorta see the same thing.I bet you don't even know what pasteuella is,fatal septicemia (infection in the bloodstream) of a bird in very short order. As the Pasteurella bacteria commonly found in the feline mouth, are extremely hazardous to birds. Even a simple puncture by a tooth can result in a fatal infection. Scratches from claws are also extremely dangerous, as the risk of infection is very real. MOST cats have it especially feral(?) im going to use common sense and say that it has the biggest chance of being "most cats" either way your account is not valid a 12-14 pound eagle killing a 7 pound cat? nope still not impressed. Cat is way more agile on land I would like to see a eagle make a successful lunge at the cat while on the ground.
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Post by Runic on May 4, 2014 22:04:00 GMT 5
I never made fun of anyone eh not really where did you get that source from? Most of the one I have seen say they average 7.3 pounds (feral) I don't know how people debate on these forums but in carnivora if one animal dies but the other animal dies from its wounds no one wins I sorta see the same thing.I bet you don't even know what pasteuella is,fatal septicemia (infection in the bloodstream) of a bird in very short order. As the Pasteurella bacteria commonly found in the feline mouth, are extremely hazardous to birds. Even a simple puncture by a tooth can result in a fatal infection. Scratches from claws are also extremely dangerous, as the risk of infection is very real. MOST cats have it especially feral(?) im going to use common sense and say that it has the biggest chance of being "most cats" either way your account is not valid a 12-14 pound eagle killing a 7 pound cat? nope still not impressed. Cat is way more agile on land I would like to see a eagle make a successful lunge at the cat while on the ground. Dying from wounds equates to blood loss or organ failure. That's not dying from wounds if a bacterial virus kills you. That's what we call dying from infection.
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Post by theropod on May 4, 2014 22:50:06 GMT 5
WeaselDo I have to remember how I first stumbled across every paper I use? I linked it, that’s enough. Nope, that’s not how it works on carnivora. The animal that kills its opponent first wins the fight lol Obviously, even if it dies later, it was still the one that managed to subdue its opponent more sucessfully. What is your source for Pasteurella spp. being so particularly deadly to birds? Not all cats even have it in their oral cavities, and if bitten by a cat that has the wound CAN result in infection, which CAN be deadly…or the bird could fly into a window and break its neck. Not at all a certainty the way you claimed it was. But if there’s a dead cat, it is a certainty the cat died. It really isn’t so difficult to understand: the eagle killed a cat that was fighting back. Female golden eagles in North America average ~11lb, not 12-14lb. There was apparently an observed account of a golden eagle killing a scottish wild cat: books.google.at/books?id=aj5MNvCkun0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+golden+eagle&hl=de&sa=X&ei=7rVnU4X1GI2y7Aack4GACQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=wild%20cat&f=falseI’ve found a quote of that account here→; it sais the eagle lifted the cat into the air and then dropped it (which is feasible, according to Raptors of the World→ golden eagles can carry prey as large as, or larger than themselves) and flew off, but was later found with severe injuries that is succumbed to. Not sure whether they were really inflicted in the same encounter tough.
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 23:10:50 GMT 5
There are thousands of different breeds but it would have had to been a mainecoon to make it parity, im 99.9% sure it was an average housecat and not a mainecoon. The link shows nothing about golden eagles killing cats it just shows a book called The Golden Eagle:King of birds. I want to read the account please not just a single quote. .
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 4, 2014 23:15:30 GMT 5
I never made fun of anyone eh not really where did you get that source from? Most of the one I have seen say they average 7.3 pounds (feral) I don't know how people debate on these forums but in carnivora if one animal dies but the other animal dies from its wounds no one wins I sorta see the same thing.I bet you don't even know what pasteuella is,fatal septicemia (infection in the bloodstream) of a bird in very short order. As the Pasteurella bacteria commonly found in the feline mouth, are extremely hazardous to birds. Even a simple puncture by a tooth can result in a fatal infection. Scratches from claws are also extremely dangerous, as the risk of infection is very real. MOST cats have it especially feral(?) im going to use common sense and say that it has the biggest chance of being "most cats" either way your account is not valid a 12-14 pound eagle killing a 7 pound cat? nope still not impressed. Cat is way more agile on land I would like to see a eagle make a successful lunge at the cat while on the ground. Dying from wounds equates to blood loss or organ failure. That's not dying from wounds if a bacterial virus kills you. That's what we call dying from infection. Thats why I said 'sorta' if the cat never bit the eagle it would have survived FOR SURE. either way the account is not valid a female golden eagle killing a 7 pound semi domestic cat? im not impressed.
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Weasel
Junior Member
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Post by Weasel on May 5, 2014 1:26:48 GMT 5
I don't see how your new account is valid either they did not fight the eagle just lifted the cat and dropped it. It does not even mention the sex/age of either animals.
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Post by theropod on May 5, 2014 1:44:07 GMT 5
I gave very precise instructions how you can find it. Search for "wild cat" in the book and you will see what I was talking about. The quote I’ve linked seems to be the whole account. You seem to be using a strange definition of "fight". Anyway, the eagle grabbed the cat and flew away with it (no, the cat did not grab the eagle and overpower and kill it!). That doesn’t work without embedding its talons fairly deeply. And in fact, the account sais the cat was "dead and mangled" when they found it. Scottish wild cats average larger than golden eagles, at 5-6kg for females and 6-7kg for males→. So it is realistic to assume the eagle dropped it because it was too much to fly with, especially if it was still alive. It might also have been planning to lift and then drop it all along, like eagles sometimes to to crack open turtle shells. anyway, that seemed to have been a miscalculation–and still, the eagle got the better of it. Sure you understand the meaning of the word "valid"? If so, do you have any reason to doubt its validity? Maybe Runic can help there: I found the report in one of his CF posts, he might still know where he took it from.
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Post by Runic on May 5, 2014 2:11:31 GMT 5
@weasel So if a house cat scratches and infects a lion but the lion kills the cat neither animal won from your irrational logic to try and make the account void right? And secondly where the f*ck do you keep getting this 7lb BS from? ? Feral cats have weighed 14lbs before! And there's something called cat BREEDS. theropodI lost the full report sadly
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Fragillimus335
Member
Sauropod fanatic, and dinosaur specialist
Posts: 573
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Post by Fragillimus335 on May 5, 2014 3:37:40 GMT 5
Dudes, guys, whoa! Unless the eagle used its heat vision to completely disintegrate a cat twice its size without suffering a single scratch, then that eagle didn't kill that cat bro!
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 5, 2014 5:59:12 GMT 5
I can't access the report can you just re post it here?
The report does not state the sex/age of either animal!
Feral's average 7.3 pounds I have said this before.
The cat was not twice the size of the eagle that is a pretty ridiculous thing to say even if your being sarcastic.
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Weasel
Junior Member
Posts: 160
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Post by Weasel on May 5, 2014 6:16:02 GMT 5
Runic I already told you that there are thousands of different types of breeds but out of those thousand only a maine coon could make it parity. Let me guess your going to claim it was an african Savannah cat that weighs 25 pounds.
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Post by creature386 on May 5, 2014 19:18:26 GMT 5
theropodFor some reason, I can't use the searching function of google books anymore without preview. Would you mind typing in the search and then posting the link (from what I remember, I sometimes did so in the past)?
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