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Post by creature386 on Jun 25, 2019 17:31:29 GMT 5
My bad, I didn't find the post because your link directed me to page one while all I would have needed to do was to look one page further.
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Post by theropod on Jun 25, 2019 17:50:41 GMT 5
For the record, there appear to be two known cases of injuries caused by a stegosaur, on two separate individuals of Allosaurus. One is a punctured vertebra (Carpenter et al. 2005) and one is a punctured pubic boot with subsequent infection (Bakker et al. 2014). Both appear to have been fatal, though not immediately. The first case shows some remodeling but little bone deposition, suggesting that either a part of the thagomizer got stuck, or the theropod died soon after the injury of infection (realistically, the former would entail the latter). The second case shows evidence of a massive infection that must have been lethal.
No Allosaurus that I know of, nor any other theropod, bears multiple injuries made by a stegosaur. If you know any such record, please post it.
Carpenter, K., Sanders, F., McWhinney, L.A. and Wood, L. 2005. 17. Evidence for Predator-Prey Relationships. In: Carpenter, K. (ed.), The Carnivorous Dinosaurs, Indiana University Press, Bloomington.
Bakker, R.T., Zoehfeld, K.W. and Mossbrucker, M.T. 2014. Stegosaurian Martial Arts: A Jurassic Carnivore Stabbed by a Tail Spike, Evidence for Dynamic Interactions between a Live Herbivore and a Live Predator. Geological Society of America (GSA) Annual Meeting, Session.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 25, 2019 17:53:24 GMT 5
For the record, there appear to be two known cases of injuries caused by a stegosaur, on two separate individuals of Allosaurus. One is a punctured vertebra (Carpenter et al. 2005) and one is a punctured pubic boot with subsequent infection (Bakker et al. 2014). Both appear to have been fatal, though not immediately. The first case shows some remodeling but little bone deposition, suggesting that either a part of the thagomizer got stuck, or the theropod died soon after the injury of infection (realistically, the former would entail the latter). The second case shows evidence of a massive infection that must have been lethal. No Allosaurus that I know of, nor any other theropod, bears multiple injuries made by a stegosaur. If you know any such record, please post it. Carpenter, K., Sanders, F., McWhinney, L.A. and Wood, L. 2005. 17. Evidence for Predator-Prey Relationships. In: Carpenter, K. (ed.), The Carnivorous Dinosaurs, Indiana University Press, Bloomington.
Bakker, R.T., Zoehfeld, K.W. and Mossbrucker, M.T. 2014. Stegosaurian Martial Arts: A Jurassic Carnivore Stabbed by a Tail Spike, Evidence for Dynamic Interactions between a Live Herbivore and a Live Predator. Geological Society of America (GSA) Annual Meeting, Session.
Thanks theropod for pointing that out! I am getting really tired of hearing that over and over again from the T rex supporters |
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Post by theropod on Jun 25, 2019 18:02:17 GMT 5
Oh and while we’re at it, there’s no evidence for Allosaurus hunting in packs either.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 25, 2019 18:05:23 GMT 5
there’s no evidence for Allosaurus hunting in packs either. Mmmmm....WHAT? I thought Como Bluff/Dinosaur Monument told us all we needed |
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rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
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Post by rock on Jun 25, 2019 18:22:12 GMT 5
ill let you and leo finish this debate up , i am kinda done with this thread , but feel free to continue if you want.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jun 25, 2019 18:23:26 GMT 5
there’s no evidence for Allosaurus hunting in packs either. Mmmmm....WHAT? I thought Como Bluff/Dinosaur Monument told us all we needed ...No. With only the fossil record it's very difficult to conclusively prove pack hunting for a species. You would need a predation scene preserved Montana Dueling Dinosaurs style in order to have conclusive proof that one did. I certainly don't think it's impossible some hunted in packs, and there is compelling evidence, but none truly conclusive. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 25, 2019 18:24:29 GMT 5
Mmmmm....WHAT? I thought Como Bluff/Dinosaur Monument told us all we needed ...No. With only the fossil record it's very difficult to conclusively prove pack hunting for a species. You would need a predation scene preserved Montana Dueling Dinosaurs style in order to have conclusive proof that one did. I certainly don't think it's impossible some hunted in packs, and there is compelling evidence, but not much, if any at all conclusively proving pack hunting in any species. If that's the case, all those Allosaurus fragilis pack matchups from Carnivora invalidate themselves |
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Post by theropod on Jun 25, 2019 18:34:19 GMT 5
there’s no evidence for Allosaurus hunting in packs either. Mmmmm....WHAT? I thought Como Bluff/Dinosaur Monument told us all we needed How so? You know that fossils being found together in some sort of bonebed doesn’t prove they lived together, right? Dinosaur national monument and cleveland lloyd Quarry for example are interpreted as drought-induced assemblages. Obviously predators accumulate in such places, whether they were naturally gregarious or solitary, in order to get to water. Well maybe it did hunt in packs, maybe it didn’t, either way, there’s no evidence. Taipan seems to demand evidence for packhunting in order to make matchups, but when it comes to the quality of that evidence he’s not very picky. The only actual evidence for herding behaviour in dinosaurs comes from trace fossils, but not for theropods afaik. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 25, 2019 18:35:41 GMT 5
Mmmmm....WHAT? I thought Como Bluff/Dinosaur Monument told us all we needed How so? You know that fossils being found together in some sort of bonebed doesn’t prove they lived together, right? Dinosaur national monument and cleveland lloyd Quarry for example are interpreted as drought-induced assemblages. Obviously predators accumulate in such places, whether they were naturally gregarious or solitary, in order to get to water. I may have gotten the fossil site wrong. Was the pack hunting theory proposed from other fossils, from different quarries? |
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Post by theropod on Jun 25, 2019 18:42:49 GMT 5
What pack-hunting theory? I don’t think such a thing has been proposed as a serious hypothesis. Current scientific consensus is that for most dinosaurs, barring concrete footprint evidence, we lack the means to tell whether they were gregarious or solitary.
For Deinonychus this has been proposed, but the evidence from fossil association was considerably better, and even that is being doubted by some.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 25, 2019 19:01:25 GMT 5
For Allosaurus fragilis. I gave been seeing it in a lot of places
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