Deinosuchus vs Torosaurus

[theropod]

I see what you mean, but I cannot see the relevance. I thought you wanted to say the horns were caudally inclined (the way you see in subadult Triceratops) which would make it difficult to make them face downward.

But they are obviously inclined rostrally, so in the end their direction depends on the angle of the head and neck, you cannot claim they had some specific angle as a limiting factor.

I already acknowledged Deinosuchus would be a more problematic target (of course disregarding issues of mobility) than a taller animal. But that's not the result of a low center of gravity, which influences stability.

However in the end, Torosaurus is more mobile, has weapons that can both reach and fatally wound the crocodilian, and probably has a weight advantage.

[Runic]

Your acting as if torosaurus is gonna be the aggressor here.

[theropod]

Am I? How do you conclude that?

And actually, is there a reason why it shouldn't be? I suppose this is not a scenario of "ceratopsian drinks-->crocodilian bites and drowns it"

It should be obvious I was talking about a fully terrestrial fight, and in this ecosystem there's no reason why Torosaurus could not be the agressor. Large, well-armed herbivores tend to be pretty agressive.

[Runic]

Nov 25, 2013 1:46:49 GMT 5 theropod said:

Am I? How do you conclude that?

And actually, is there a reason why it shouldn't be? I suppose this is not a scenario of "ceratopsian drinks-->crocodilian bites and drowns it"

It should be obvious I was talking about a fully terrestrial fight, and in this ecosystem there's no reason why Torosaurus could not be the agressor. Large, well-armed herbivores tend to be pretty agressive.

That only applies to certain few herbivores. Take Eland for example, or bison, both are massively powerful herbivores yet at the same time very placid. Even buffalo and hippo who are known for their aggression have been known to flee on sight from lone lions and even hyena. The same most likely applied here. The deinosuchus would more than likely be the aggressor as it has more of a reason to attack an animal than the herbivore. And why is this fight strictly terrestrial? You want to handicap the gator?

[theropod]

"It should be obvious I was talking about a fully terrestrial fight"
^This is what I wrote, everything more than that is merely your imagination. Of course in the water it's a fully different story.

Buffalo, hippo, elephants, rhinos are all ecologically comparable to ceratopsians, and are all known to behave very agressively.
Since we are talking about a fighting scenario, that both are going to fight, not flee, should be obvious. Otherwise, I'm quite sure the crocodilian would flee from a terrestrial faceoff, and the ceratopsian from an aquatic one.

[Runic]

Anything more is just my imagination? Wtf are you talking about ?? Do you not know what an inference is?? I made a inference hence me saying "You're ACTING AS IF torosaurus would be the aggressor !". That, coupled with how you incorrectly read my last post on animal behavior just flat out made me twitch.I was speaking about a general prey reaction vs a predator reaction when the latter attacks the former. I simply used buffalo and gaur to refute your assumption or inference that the herbivore is more likely to be the aggressor because it is well armed.

I can tell this is going nowhere fast so I'm ending this discussion with you. I can see where Grey comes from sometimes.

[theropod]

Well, if you complaining about things that I never implied ("You wanna handicap the gator?") that's none of my business.

That you are perceiving me as "ACTING AS IF torosaurus would be the aggressor !" is not relevant either as long as you cannot even give me a resaon why this A. wouldn't be the case and B. if it wasn't that would change what I wrote.
I would like to see both, not incomplete argumentation for one of them.

[Godzillasaurus]

But that's not the result of a low center of gravity, which influences stability.

True, but its low center of gravity is a result of it being a very short and squat ectotherm. So it really means the same thing.

However in the end, Torosaurus is more mobile, has weapons that can both reach and fatally wound the crocodilian, and probably has a weight advantage.

Yea, but the bottom line is that neither of these animals really evolved to cope with their opponent; torosaurus was a land-dwelling herbivore whose primary predators were tyrannosaurids and deinosuchus was a semi-aquatic carnivore whose primary terrestrial food source was more likely ornithopods as opposed to ceratopsians (but a good majority of its diet was comprised of large fish and turtles). In other words, it would seem particularly risky for both animals in this fight. But if I HAD to choose a winner, I would go with torosaurus

[theropod]

That's the point. Adapted or not, all the advantages lie with Torosaurus. It's clear that if given the oppurtunity such a faceoff would most likely be avoided.

[Carcharodon]

I think torosaurus would win, it could easily cause major damage on deinosuchus with those horns, as deinosuchus would rather have a hard time killing a prey item bigger than itself.

[Godzillasaurus]

Dec 21, 2013 1:09:48 GMT 5 Carcharodon said:

I think torosaurus would win, it could easily cause major damage on deinosuchus with those horns, as deinosuchus would rather have a hard time killing a prey item bigger than itself.

Torosaurus' horns were placed in very bad positions to effectively impale such a low-slung and short predator. They were, fundamentally, designed to impale the bellies and chests of considerably taller predators (most notably, large tyrannosaurids).

If the deinosuchus manages to bite the ceratopsian's leg, there is an immensely good chance that one of its leg bones will be majorly damaged. And even in the case that the initial bite itself was ineffective (which it would likely be a lot more deadly than a lot think, as deinosuchus' jaws and teeth alike were perfectly designed for crushing and resisting/exerting old amounts of force), the deinosuchus would be in the perfect position to roll so that it can create massive ankle or tibia damage. But again, deinosuchus was ill-adapted anyway for taking down ceratopsians.

I am not saying that the deinosuchus would win here, just that both animals were not well adapted for dealing with one another.

[Deleted]

Deinosuchus would win.

[creature386]

As Godzillasaurus said, I doubt Torosaurus' horns were effective against a predator the height of Deinosuchus. For now, I back Deino.

[dinosauria101]

Torosaurus wins on land, Deinosuchus wins in water