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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 2, 2020 4:03:40 GMT 5
To hunt big prey, why else (especially for an obligate carnivorous predator)?
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smedz
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Post by smedz on Apr 2, 2020 4:16:48 GMT 5
April Fools!! Infinity Blade
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Post by 6f5e4d on Apr 2, 2020 4:20:48 GMT 5
This still makes for a very fearsome cat, though as to whether it can handle a bear, it still has to be careful.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Apr 2, 2020 5:00:34 GMT 5
April Fools!! Infinity Blade  |
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Post by elosha11 on Apr 2, 2020 6:49:18 GMT 5
elosha11 That is the one you mentioned above. The S. populator in the study I posted was estimated to be 436 kg, which is pretty much equal to 960 pounds. But, and you can take this for what it's worth, I do remember a GDI estimate of what I assume was a different specimen on a Discord server I'm on, and it came out to be just a little over 400 kg too. Interesting, and I think it's known what question should be answered next. Why get so big in the first place? Probably they adapted to prefer enormous prey like the huge ground sloths and armadillos mentioned in the article. They were fulfilling the apex predator niches in their environment, while smaller, but still formidable predators hunted the mid-size prey. Unless, I've missed something, I don't know of any evidence suggesting Smilodon was or was not a social pack hunter. Given how rare it is for modern felines, I'd think statistically less than probable. But who knows? As to the fight, this is getting closer. We can assume we haven't discovered the absolute largest Smildon populator, so 1000 pounds is not out of the question, if the estimates are correct. They are also more robust than modern felines. The absolute largest polar bears known to us are probably still too large, but it's not a sure thing for the polar bear. |
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Post by elosha11 on Apr 2, 2020 6:50:39 GMT 5
Just saw the April Fools comments. Touche!  |
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smedz
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Post by smedz on Apr 3, 2020 2:16:30 GMT 5
Interesting, and I think it's known what question should be answered next. Why get so big in the first place? Probably they adapted to prefer enormous prey like the huge ground sloths and armadillos mentioned in the article. They were fulfilling the apex predator niches in their environment, while smaller, but still formidable predators hunted the mid-size prey. Unless, I've missed something, I don't know of any evidence suggesting Smilodon was or was not a social pack hunter. Given how rare it is for modern felines, I'd think statistically less than probable. But who knows? As to the fight, this is getting closer. We can assume we haven't discovered the absolute largest Smildon populator, so 1000 pounds is not out of the question, if the estimates are correct. They are also more robust than modern felines. The absolute largest polar bears known to us are probably still too large, but it's not a sure thing for the polar bear. True, it is rare in modern felines but that's only because most of the cats at the right size for it don't live in the right environments for it. The reasons lions live in groups is because while lionesses don't need help bringing down big animals they do need help in defending those kills from spotted hyena clans since in open grasslands a kill is easier to spot from a distance whereas in a forest a cat can hide a kill much more easily. Lions, when they hunt in a group, can actually overcome the problem of hunting in spots with low cover by coordinating their activities according to research in Etosha National Park, Namibia which could have been a big reason for Smilodon Populator to have been social given that being much bigger than a lion would have really made it stick out when there wasn't much cover around. Interestingly enough, normally the tigresses in one spot are related and tigers have also been reported to travel in groups and a group of tigers will sometimes share a kill, so the tiger has social "genes" like the lion, but in the habitat they live in makes living in groups unimportant, and is the same reason jaguars don't live on groups. Leopards aren't social because since they're smaller and can stash food up trees, they don't need to. Mountain lions don't need to live in groups either for the same reason, but footage proves that mountain lions will gather on a kill. |
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all
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Post by all on May 31, 2020 1:14:21 GMT 5
I favor the bear but this would far from an easy fight. Yes Polar bear is bigger and stronger and if there would be a prolonged fight he would win. But lots would depend on who would attack first. There was an incident where wolverine actually was able to kill a polar bear by jumping and grabbing the polar bear by the throat cutting through polar bear's aorta and killing it before bear was able to react. Yes bear is stronger but even though it would usually win but it would be close to 6-4 bear rather than lets say 10-1. If smilodon would think of polar bear the way he would think about his own prey and try to hold the bear and dip his teeth into bear's belly that would be a big mistake against the bear. who would overpower smilodon and put is down. But if smilodon would be smart about it attack first by jumping and grabbing the bear by the throat and cutting its major blood vessels it has just as much chance to kill the bear as bear has to kill it.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on May 31, 2020 10:43:34 GMT 5
I doubt a Wolverine can kill a polar bear. I have read the account and can post it here but I don’t believe it. Wolverine’s have been killed by smaller American black bears and cougars.
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all
Junior Member
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Post by all on May 31, 2020 18:18:54 GMT 5
To tell you the truth when I read it I had hard time believing it myself. However i a fight anything can happen. The element of surprise and the way fight happens also matter a lot. If an interaction would be that both animals wrestle each other obviously wolverine has no chance against polar bear what so ever and be hard press to beat a puma. however the way attack happen here with speed element of surprise and precision of execution which allowed for wolverine to avoid strength contest completely made such outcome possible. Puma although not as strong as a bear is much more agile the kind of attack I described would be much harder to execute against it. I'm not saying wolverine can beat polar bear or even have a decent chance as a rule I'm just saying under correct circumstances there are almost always exceptions to the given rule and this happened here. Smilodon is much stronger and larger than wolverine and like I said i still favor the bear. However given smilodon's size the fact that he has his unique set of canines and powerful ankle muscles which allow for good jumping ability if he was to try to execute maneuver I described he would have better chances being successful than wolverine would be. And to some extend capable to wrestle at least for a while. and the saber teeth would always be a threat. plus smilodon has a very strong skeleton. hit to the head although devastating under those circumstances would not do as much damage to smilodon as it would to lion or a tiger. Bear would have to bite through smilodon's throat of break his spine in order to kill him. like i said overall I favor the bear but this would be difficult fight even for him.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on May 31, 2020 18:38:02 GMT 5
I agree a smilodon is stronger than a tiger and lion too. The smilodon does have a strong skeleton too. Bears, however, generally have denser bones than cats. The male polar bear would have stronger bones and forearms than a smilodon populator too.
A smilodon’s teeth can slash and stab the skull etc but it’s hard to place a skull bite of your opponent is fighting back.
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Post by creature386 on May 31, 2020 18:40:45 GMT 5
I'd like to see the account in question if we spend so much time dwelling on it.
I agree with GreenArrow though that it is just an extraordinary claim, so the account would need to be really water-tight to mean anything. If "anything can happen" in a fight, we wouldn't be making these threads. There are probabilities and a wolverine killing a polar bear is among the very low end of the probably spectrum.
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Post by Infinity Blade on May 31, 2020 20:03:41 GMT 5
Is there any actual proof of this? So, here's the thing: there is a claim that a wolverine killed a polar bear in captivity, and the earliest citation for this goes all the way back to 1930, as you can see here->. Needless to say, given the extraordinary nature of this claim (that a wolverine killed a polar bear), it needs to be scrutinized carefully. And if it can't (a quick attempt to find the original source proved fruitless), it needs to be viewed with heavy skepticism. There is another account, however, where a wolverine supposedly killed a polar bear on Arctic sea ice (leading me to believe this is a separate account from the one above). For what it's worth (and this is all from Carnivora's wolverine profile), Taipan actually emailed The Wolverine Foundation about this since their website cites the actual reference for this account (it is Home, W. S. 1980. Wolverine kills polar bear on arctic sea ice. Arctic Circular Vol. 27, No. 3: p. 29.). He got an email reply back, and he was sent a pdf scan of some information manually typed before publication (1979). The account is retold by a trapper's son 36 years after the fact (1944), and the son was not present at the incident. The woman from The Wolverine Foundation who emailed Taipan back says that this appears to have been published because the publisher, W.S. Home (as mentioned above), was soliciting information on similar incidents. So...yeah, wolverines killing polar bears doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. |
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all
Junior Member
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Post by all on May 31, 2020 22:55:23 GMT 5
Keep in mind I used wolverine as possible example and overall we are talking about smilodon vs polar bear and not wolverine vs polar bear. As far as forelimbs strength of polar bear yes it is great since bears are build for power. However forelimbs of Smilodon are also very powerful.In fact it is one of the things smilodon is known for. Smilodon is much more muscular and heavier than any modern cat and his forelimbs are exceptionally strong. He is also quite agile despite his size. Like I said I do favor the bear in this encounter however it would not be an easy fight in my opinion.
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Post by elosha11 on Jun 1, 2020 22:31:50 GMT 5
From comments earlier in the thread, it seems people think a female polar bear would be beaten by the Smilodon, but that would be relatively close. But that doesn't make sense to me. We have Smilodon populator approaching 1000 pounds, and female polar bears are generally around 500 lbs maybe up to 750 lbs. The only time they get close to 1000 lbs is when they are heavily pregnant, which would probably greatly impair their fighting ability. I think the Smilodon is normally going to be significantly larger and would readily defeat a female.
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