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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 21, 2019 21:09:55 GMT 5
allCouple things 1: Where did you find that Smilodon was a good jumper? That sounds pretty interesting 2: I agree, an agile cat like an American lion has more chance
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all
Junior Member
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Post by all on Sept 22, 2019 0:09:15 GMT 5
First instance where I heard that smilodon was a good jumper is in a book which I read as a kid. It was more popular science book directed at younger audience but I think Istill learned a little bit from it. Later I read about it in pdf's and on the internet. According to what I read Smilodon had well developed Achilles tendon as well as other muscles and bones important for jumping. I'm sorry I can't give you the names of pdf's and internet sites that have this inf right now. Because it was a while ago and I don't remember their names. However if I come across one I'll give you the link. You can probably find one yourself if you look at pdf's of smilodon, populator, fatalis or whichever. However it would probably be easier to find it in pdf that takes them all into account. And goes relatively deeply into both general knowledge as a species as a whole, and gives info about each individual species of smilodon as well.
As far as American Cave Lion. there seems to be lot of different opinions for how much did it weigh. With some suggesting it was as little as 260 kg for average and 350 kg for the largest. while some believe it could be as much as much 500 kg plus. some believe it was about 420 kg ( All those weights are located in wikipedia.) I think i will take 420 kg as maximum. That would put it at about the weight of smilodon populator. However I think I agree with you. There is a good chance that american lion was slightly more agile than smilodon. It had relatively long legs. And most likely higher intelligence than smilodon as well. he also had bite force of 1800 lbs per square inch. I think only cave bear had larger bite force of all mammalian land predators of all time. Just like most cats it had retractable claws. It didin't have as strong forelimbs as smilodon but quite strong as well. With 420 or maybe even 520 kg it had the size and bite force and quite possibly stamina to take down giraffe. of course even for him it would not be an easy task.
The biggest problem for American lion is that it would not be able get around the giraffe's neck because giraffe was to tall and he could not reach it. The suffocation by what some call "lion's kiss" would also be impossible. Despite not having as strong forelimbs as smilodon his claws were well designed for gripping its prey.
American cave lion was a solitary hunter yet it was capable of bringing down bison antiquus of over 1500 kg. It is even possible that it hunted mammoths. So he had the strength. However getting to the giraffe's throat would be difficult. He was an ambush hunter with lots of speed but like many cats not lots of stamina in a chase. He would have to get really close to giraffe (which is something he was actually quite good at) and pounce on it jumping on her rump. However because giraffe is so tall that would be difficult. But when giraffe is tired enough from fighting with lionesses the male modern lion is capable of jumping onto giraffes rump. It cannot jump all the way on her back. But he can jump on her rump and bring her down with help of lionesses. But even then it usually takes more than one attempt.
ACL was bigger than African lion and probably had bigger claws ( but I'm not sure about that) his claws were well designed for gripping. But only realistic way to put down giraffe one one would be to get too and sever her spinal cord. That would take her down after which ACL could wrestle her to the ground and grab her by her throat or suffocate her. With 1800 lbs of force he actually might have a chance to pull it off.
I wonder if maybe ACL would actually grab giraffe by the upper part of the limb and damage the muscle or maybe even break somethning to stop her from kicking. but this is kind of a long shot. It could still get kicked in the process and although he is resilient he is not as heavily build as smilodon.
Giraffe probably still has a better chance to ether get away or kick ACL until he gives up. which he would after couple of tries if he sees he is not being successful because he does not have that much stamina. He would probably get as close as he could then instantaneously charge with great speed. (because he is said to be quite fast) He would try to overwhelm the giraffe as quickly as posible probably by trying to jump on her back and get as high as possible while putting his weight down on her and climbing her rump to damage ether her gluts or her spine. Gluts would be a softer target but if he got all the way on giraffes back he could put more weight on her and do damage to lower back. Severing spinal cord is not easy. and I'm not sure even if ACL's canines although long would be long enough to reach the spine. Smilodon's longer canines might prove too fragile and he might not have the bite force to do it.
If an animal had ability to put his canines deep enough and despite of that they would not be as fragile. Had the bite force and size of American cave lion . African lion's speed and agility. stamina of a wolf. then yes this could be done and maybe even relatively easily but there is no such cat ever in existance. if it was completly different animal all thogether lets say utahraptor then yes he could do it. but he is not the one we are talking about.
Nonetheless in an actual encounter anything can happen. Once out of ten thousand even one large male African lion might do it. But that would be very very rare. If there is a cat that can do it lets say once out of thirty it would ether be smilodon populator or American cave lion. Keeping in mind that in general most hunts are not successful. Lions one out of three as I mentioned. Only animal that i know of that is more often successful than not is the Komodo dragon with 90% kill ratio. .
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Post by Infinity Blade on Sept 22, 2019 0:32:05 GMT 5
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Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 22, 2019 1:16:24 GMT 5
Interesting, a better jumper than Homotherium. Still think I would favor the giraffe but I'm seeing more of a chance for the machairodont than I first thought. allYes, an American lion is a pretty close match. And the weights do vary = I generally go with 256 kg as per Wheeler
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