|
|
Post by theropod on Jun 24, 2019 0:59:42 GMT 5
That being said, I think it is equally hypocritical nonsense for people who sweepingly state that eating/using animal products is wrong, because animals are being used without their consent (an argument I recently heard from a vegan, which does make some degree of sense), but still think keeping pets is ok (after all, animals cannot consent to being "owned" either following this logic).
The most hypocritical thing out there is probably how a guesstimated 90% of meat eaters seem to almost puke or cry when confronted with the reality of an animal being slaughtered in front of them.
Again, I am a meat eater. And I have killed animals myself and eaten them. I think anybody who eats meat should be psychologically able to do the same. Still, even as someone who really likes meat, there is absolutely no denying that we all need to become largely vegetarian (as in eating meat a maximum of 1-2 times a week, and mostly fish, poultry or insects at that) before the end of the decade. That’s not sarcasm, and no matter what trash some vegans talk, it’s important to keep in mind that it’s probably a lot less harmful than the opposite extreme.
|
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jun 24, 2019 1:02:57 GMT 5
Ok, Ok, if their main reason for doing this is indeed believing that a pet should rather be dead than having an owner, their practices are indeed euthanasia. I also looked up the case with the chihuahua and indeed, if they snuck onto someone's property, it was definitely theft and no mistake. So yeah, they're quite horrible. That being said, I wouldn't call them complete hypocrites. It does make some sense if you are willing to buy that pet ownership is basically slavery (which is nonsense, of course). ...... they are hypocrites if they dont believe in killing animals for food yet they kill thousands of dogs and cats a year and then steal a little girls dog and kill it for nothing , little girl is likley sacared for life and has PTSD , they are hypocrites IMO |
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jun 24, 2019 1:04:11 GMT 5
That being said, I think it is equally hypocritical nonsense for people who sweepingly state that eating/using animal products is wrong, because animals are being used without their consent (an argument I recently heard from a vegan, which does make some degree of sense), but still think keeping pets is ok (after all, animals cannot consent to being "owned" either following this logic). The most hypocritical thing out there is probably how a guesstimated 90% of meat eaters seem to almost puke or cry when confronted with the reality of an animal being slaughtered in front of them. Again, I am a meat eater. And I have killed animals myself and eaten them. I think anybody who eats meat should be psychologically able to do the same. Still, even as someone who really likes meat, there is absolutely no denying that we all need to become largely vegetarian (as in eating meat a maximum of 1-2 times a week, and mostly fish, poultry or insects at that) before the end of the decade. That’s not sarcasm, and no matter what trash some vegans talk, it’s important to keep in mind that it’s probably a lot less harmful than the opposite extreme. humans should be eating more vegetables i agree |
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jun 24, 2019 1:05:45 GMT 5
That being said, I think it is equally hypocritical nonsense for people who sweepingly state that eating/using animal products is wrong, because animals are being used without their consent (an argument I recently heard from a vegan, which does make some degree of sense), but still think keeping pets is ok (after all, animals cannot consent to being "owned" either following this logic). The most hypocritical thing out there is probably how a guesstimated 90% of meat eaters seem to almost puke or cry when confronted with the reality of an animal being slaughtered in front of them. Again, I am a meat eater. And I have killed animals myself and eaten them. I think anybody who eats meat should be psychologically able to do the same. Still, even as someone who really likes meat, there is absolutely no denying that we all need to become largely vegetarian (as in eating meat a maximum of 1-2 times a week, and mostly fish, poultry or insects at that) before the end of the decade. That’s not sarcasm, and no matter what trash some vegans talk, it’s important to keep in mind that it’s probably a lot less harmful than the opposite extreme. do you think humans require meat? do you think we are omnivores? , if you anwser yes to these questions , then it is perfectly fine to eat meat |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Jun 24, 2019 1:13:01 GMT 5
That being said, I think it is equally hypocritical nonsense for people who sweepingly state that eating/using animal products is wrong, because animals are being used without their consent (an argument I recently heard from a vegan, which does make some degree of sense), but still think keeping pets is ok (after all, animals cannot consent to being "owned" either following this logic). Not sure about that. Lots of pet owners let their pets play outside unsupervised and these pets mostly come back home, even if they could survive on the streets (our cat does this all the time, no matter how far she ventures outside). This is a form of consent. On the other hand, the fact that bolt shots are necessary shows how much animals consent to being slaughtered. rockI'm pretty sure they'd euthanize plenty of livestock, too, if they had the power to |
|
|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Jun 24, 2019 1:17:23 GMT 5
rock I'm pretty sure they'd euthanize plenty of livestock, too, if they had the power to Now that would be a new level of hypocrisy beyond anything they've ever shown before |
|
|
|
Post by theropod on Jun 24, 2019 1:31:34 GMT 5
I think I have written that like 5 times now. Yes, humans are omnivores. That’s really so clear it doesn’t require much debate.
Whether humans require meat depends on the circumstances, and what for. The most healthy diet I could envision would probably include meat (in moderation). But there are plenty of people who live healthily as vegetarians and yes, even vegans.
But that’s in modern times, where dietary supplements, industrially processed and globally traded food are widely available (in the developed world, at least) at any time. I think humans definitely did require meat in the past, and physiologically nothing major has changed since then, but we have different means at our disposal to get what we need now.
|
|
|
|
Post by theropod on Jun 24, 2019 1:41:28 GMT 5
That being said, I think it is equally hypocritical nonsense for people who sweepingly state that eating/using animal products is wrong, because animals are being used without their consent (an argument I recently heard from a vegan, which does make some degree of sense), but still think keeping pets is ok (after all, animals cannot consent to being "owned" either following this logic). Not sure about that. Lots of pet owners let their pets play outside unsupervised and these pets mostly come back home, even if they could survive on the streets (our cat does this all the time, no matter how far she ventures outside). This is a form of consent. On the other hand, the fact that bolt shots are necessary shows how much animals consent to being slaughtered. Well, I’m not referring to animals being slaughtered as much as animals being used to produce stuff. Honey bees (yes, that really was the specific example in question) come back to their beehives too, but vegans still don’t eat honey (something I was actually somewhat surprised to learn this friday). Chickens or cows used for their eggs and milk may or may not be held in a manner appropriate for their species, and it may or may not be obvious that they suffer from the conditions imposed on them, but I’ve seen lots of people have their chickens run around semi-free without them escaping. You could argue that a cat or a chicken or a bee does not have the cognitive capacity to really consent, or at least that we cannot tell if it does, just like a child does not. BTW I’m not saying I’m agreeing with the argument (prey never consents to being eaten by a predator, after all, hence why I’m very far from being a vegan), I’m just saying I find it logically sound and understandable if that’s the argument one chooses to follow, as long as one is being consistent (and not for example owning pets, least of all carnivorous pets fed on a vegan diet). |
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jun 24, 2019 1:47:16 GMT 5
Not sure about that. Lots of pet owners let their pets play outside unsupervised and these pets mostly come back home, even if they could survive on the streets (our cat does this all the time, no matter how far she ventures outside). This is a form of consent. On the other hand, the fact that bolt shots are necessary shows how much animals consent to being slaughtered. Well, I’m not referring to animals being slaughtered as much as animals being used to produce stuff. Honey bees (yes, that really was the specific example in question) come back to their beehives too, but vegans still don’t eat honey (something I was actually somewhat surprised to learn this friday). Chickens or cows used for their eggs and milk may or may not be held in a manner appropriate for their species, and it may or may not be obvious that they suffer from the conditions imposed on them, but I’ve seen lots of people have their chickens run around semi-free without them escaping. You could argue that a cat or a chicken or a bee does not have the cognitive capacity to really consent, or at least that we cannot tell if it does, just like a child does not. BTW I’m not saying I’m agreeing with the argument (prey never consents to being eaten by a predator, after all, hence why I’m very far from being a vegan), I’m just saying I find it logically sound and understandable if that’s the argument one chooses to follow, as long as one is being consistent (and not for example owning pets, least of all carnivorous pets fed on a vegan diet). good point , when a wolf is chasing a rabbit to eat the rabbit the rabbit is not like ;ok mr wolf come and eat me ´ he is trying to escape , same with cows and chickiens . |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Jun 24, 2019 1:51:04 GMT 5
Not sure about that. Lots of pet owners let their pets play outside unsupervised and these pets mostly come back home, even if they could survive on the streets (our cat does this all the time, no matter how far she ventures outside). This is a form of consent. On the other hand, the fact that bolt shots are necessary shows how much animals consent to being slaughtered. Well, I’m not referring to animals being slaughtered as much as animals being used to produce stuff. Honey bees (yes, that really was the specific example in question) come back to their beehives too, but vegans still don’t eat honey (something I was actually somewhat surprised to learn this friday). Chickens or cows used for their eggs and milk may or may not be held in a manner appropriate for their species, and it may or may not be obvious that they suffer from the conditions imposed on them, but I’ve seen lots of people have their chickens run around semi-free without them escaping. You could argue that a cat or a chicken or a bee does not have the cognitive capacity to really consent, or at least that we cannot tell if it does, just like a child does not. BTW I’m not saying I’m agreeing with the argument (prey never consents to being eaten by a predator, after all, hence why I’m very far from being a vegan), I’m just saying I find it logically sound and understandable if that’s the argument one chooses to follow, as long as one is being consistent (and not for example owning pets, least of all carnivorous pets fed on a vegan diet). I see. I would actually agree that holding chicken in the described manner (semi-free range) is not problematic in and of itself. It's more what surrounds the egg production itself (slaughtering those who are too old to be economical and shredding male chicks) and the conditions in mass factory farming (you know, where they have their beaks cut to prevent them from basically killing each other) that bug me. But that's just my take, I can't speak for the vegan who cares for honey bees since I do not (or, at least, I haven't given the issue much thought). |
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jul 25, 2019 22:06:59 GMT 5
lol , he encourages to force animals that are desgined to hunt and eat meat to be vegan
its crual to force an animal like a dog or cat that needs meat to live , to eat a vegan diet , just because cats and dogs can live on a vegan diet with pills doesnt mean it is a good idea nor does it mean it is the safest option for them .
|
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Jul 29, 2019 2:55:07 GMT 5
Rock, in general terms, is it wrong to harm animals or not? You seem to be very confused about that. If it's acceptable to harm an animal to prevent harm in another animal, the question whether you feed pets meat or not seems like a trolley dilemma situation where both options are acceptable (why vegans want carnivorous pets so badly in the first place is a whole different question though).
Or do only arbitrarily cultural norms have a say?
|
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jul 29, 2019 21:45:14 GMT 5
Rock, in general terms, is it wrong to harm animals or not? You seem to be very confused about that. If it's acceptable to harm an animal to prevent harm in another animal, the question whether you feed pets meat or not seems like a trolley dilemma situation where both options are acceptable (why vegans want carnivorous pets so badly in the first place is a whole different question though). Or do only arbitrarily cultural norms have a say? your forcing an animal that needs and wants meat to live , how would you like it if a cow owned you and then fed you grass and gave you pills to live instead of your species appriote foods , fruits , nuts , vegetables , meats , grains?? i dont care if they are barley living , forcing an animal to eat something it doesnt want to , is animal crultey IMO , if they want a vegan pet , rabbits , hamsters , parrots , squrriels and pigs all workout but not cats or dogs. |
|
|
|
Post by creature386 on Jul 29, 2019 23:06:41 GMT 5
Rock, I was asking if it is in general terms wrong to harm animals or not.
In other threads, you stated plants can feel pain, but I'm sure you know no concept of plant cruelty.
|
|
rock
Senior Member Rank 1
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by rock on Jul 30, 2019 20:54:53 GMT 5
Rock, I was asking if it is in general terms wrong to harm animals or not. In other threads, you stated plants can feel pain, but I'm sure you know no concept of plant cruelty. it depends on the circumstance , if is for food for dogs , cats , humans then it is ok , if it is beating the animal for no reason then it is not ok IMO , plants feel pain , animals feel pain , its part of life , if nothing felt pain we wont be able to eat. |
|
