American Scimitar (coalition of 2) vs. Smilodon populator

[dinosauria101]

American Scimitar (coalition of 2) - Homotherium serum
Homotherium reached 1.1 m (3 ft 7 in) at the shoulder and weighed an estimated 190 kg (420 lb) and was therefore about the size of a male African lion.[18][19] Compared to some other machairodonts, like Smilodon or Megantereon, Homotherium had shorter upper canines, but they were flat, serrated and longer than those of any living cat. Incisors and lower canines formed a powerful puncturing and gripping device. Among living cats, only the tiger (Panthera tigris) has such large incisors, which aid in lifting and carrying prey. The molars of Homotherium were rather weak and not adapted for bone crushing. The skull was longer than in Smilodon and had a well-developed crest, where muscles were attached to power the lower jaw. This jaw had down-turned forward flanges to protect the scimitars. Its large canine teeth were crenulated and designed for slashing rather than purely stabbing.
It had the general appearance of a cat, but some of its physical characteristics are rather unusual for a large cat. The limb proportions of Homotherium gave it a hyena-like appearance. The forelegs were elongated, while the hind quarters were rather squat with feet perhaps partially plantigrade, causing the back to slope towards the short tail. Features of the hind limbs indicate that this cat was moderately capable of leaping. The pelvic region, including the sacral vertebrae, was bear-like, as was the short tail composed of 13 vertebrae—about half the number of long-tailed cats'.
The unusually large, square nasal opening, like that of the cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus), presumably allowed quicker oxygen intake, which aided in rapid running and in cooling the brain. As in the cheetah, too, the brain's visual cortex was large and complex, emphasizing the scimitar cat's ability to see well and function in the day, rather than the night as do most other cats.
Based on Homotherium's preference for open habitat such as plains and comparisons with modern cats, it is considered likely by ethologist William Allen et al that Homotherium would have been plainly colored like lions to better camouflage itself.[20]


Smilodon populator
Smilodon is a genus of the extinct machairodont subfamily of the felids. It is one of the most famous prehistoric mammals, and the best known saber-toothed cat. Although commonly known as the saber-toothed tiger, it was not closely related to the tiger or other modern cats. Smilodon lived in the Americas during the Pleistocene epoch (2.5 mya–10,000 years ago). The genus was named in 1842, based on fossils from Brazil. Three species are recognized today: S. gracilis, S. fatalis, and S. populator. The two latter species were probably descended from S. gracilis, which itself probably evolved from Megantereon. The hundreds of individuals obtained from the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles constitute the largest collection of Smilodon fossils.
Overall, Smilodon was more robustly built than any extant cat, with particularly well-developed forelimbs and exceptionally long upper canine teeth. Its jaw had a bigger gape than that of modern cats, and its upper canines were slender and fragile, being adapted for precision killing. S. gracilis was the smallest species at 55 to 100 kg (120 to 220 lb) in weight. S. fatalis had a weight of 160 to 280 kg (350 to 620 lb) and height of 100 cm (39 in). Both of these species are mainly known from North America, but remains from South America have also been attributed to them. S. populator from South America was the largest species, at 220 to 400 kg (490 to 880 lb) in weight and 120 cm (47 in) in height, and was among the largest known felids. The coat pattern of Smilodon is unknown, but it has been artistically restored with plain or spotted patterns.
In North America, Smilodon hunted large herbivores such as bison and camels, and it remained successful even when encountering new prey species in South America. Smilodon is thought to have killed its prey by holding it still with its forelimbs and biting it, but it is unclear in what manner the bite itself was delivered. Scientists debate whether Smilodon had a social or a solitary lifestyle; analysis of modern predator behavior as well as of Smilodon's fossil remains could be construed to lend support to either view. Smilodon probably lived in closed habitats such as forests and bush, which would have provided cover for ambushing prey. Smilodon died out at the same time that most North and South American megafauna disappeared, about 10,000 years ago. Its reliance on large animals has been proposed as the cause of its extinction, along with climate change and competition with other species, but the exact cause is unknown.

Credit to Wikipedia; Images by Rom-diz and Sergiodlarosa

[rock]

ill give this to the Scimitar coalition , they should be able to win in numbers and should outweigh the smilodon [together] , but this seams pretty close

[elosha11]

Two big scimitars should get the job done, if they are very careful. But I note that a dominant African lion can sometimes overcome two interlopers, and Smilodon is obviously much bigger than one scimitar cat, unlike one African lion male v. two males So the scimatar team would have to be very careful and one would have to try to distract smilodon from the front, while the other cat tries to bite and cripple smilodon from behind. A very dangerous task because if smilodon can even injure one of the scimitars, the battle turns in its favor. I'm only giving this to the scimitars 55/45.

BTW, I love that artwork of the scimitars. Beautiful cats, if that's what they really looked like.

[elosha11]

Also, this is so close, I'm voting 50/50, even though I slightly favor the scimitars.

[dinosauria101]

Aug 5, 2019 6:04:46 GMT 5 elosha11 said:

1: Two big scimitars should get the job done, if they are very careful. But I note that a dominant African lion can sometimes overcome two interlopers, and Smilodon is obviously much bigger than one scimitar cat, unlike one African lion male v. two males

2: So the scimatar team would have to be very careful and one would have to try to distract smilodon from the front, while the other cat tries to bite and cripple smilodon from behind. A very dangerous task because if smilodon can even injure one of the scimitars, the battle turns in its favor. I'm only giving this to the scimitars 55/45.

BTW, I love that artwork of the scimitars. Beautiful cats, if that's what they really looked like.

1: Yes, I agree. Scimitars take this match by just a hair IMO, no only does the Smilodon outweigh them, it also has a considerable robusticity advantage

2: I wonder how the different dentition of the scimitars to that of their adversary might affect what happens then? Might it be a help or hindrance, do you think?

Will make a chart later, btw

[dinosauria101]

Size chart

[smedz]

One important thing to note is that scimitars actually weren't as strong as modern lions or tigers. Just thought that would be important to note.

[dinosauria101]

smedz

Yes, that is true. They're relatively gracile, and that is why this is such a close match despite Smilodon being outweighed by 50 percent

[DonaldCengXiongAzuma]

Smilodons have more powerful limbs than even tigers and lions while American scimitars have more fragile limbs than the two largest extant pantherines. This is dependent on how well the scmitars coorporate. If the smilodon kills one quickly, the other scimitar will have little to no hope of surviving.

[dinosauria101]

Sept 25, 2019 6:15:30 GMT 5 DonaldCengXiongAzuma said:

American scimitars have more fragile limbs than the two largest extant pantherines. 

You mean this?


but the fact is that also in the Pleistocene there lived another kind of sabertooth: Homotherium, the so-called scimitar-tooth cat. In the Old World, Homotherium coexisted with the lion for many thousands of years, and when one compares the anatomical structure of these two top predators there are quite a few surprises to be found:

Homotherium was not a slower or heavier animal than a lion. In fact it was on average a lighter animal, especially when compared with the Pleistocene lions of Europe that were larger than their modern counterparts. You can see that difference at a glance looking at the drawing below, where both animals are shown to the same scale: the Pleistocene lion is shown at left (life outline on top, skeleton at bottom) and Homotherium at right. Homotherium had comparatively long forelimbs, and its wrist was narrower, better adapted to running and less adequate for handling prey.

The claws of Homotherium were smaller and less retractable than those of the lion, except for the large dew-claw, as happens with the living cheetah, again adaptations for sustained running rather than grappling heavy prey.

The teeth of Homotherium were precision tools perfect for cutting the throats of large prey animals, but given that each individual cat was more of a runner and less of a wrestler than an individual lion, there is one clear implication: in order to hunt the animals that its teeth were adapted to kill, a cat with the limb anatomy of Homotherium almost inevitably had to hunt in groups.

The size of the upper canines limits the diameter of the necks of prey animals that Homotherium could bite, so it is clear that it would not hunt adults of giant species such as proboscideans, rather it would target animals within the high part of the size range of the prey taken by lions, that is: large bovines, horses and the young of the giant species.

So we see a lot of overlapping and potential competition with lions, more so than the old cliché of the sabertooths as slow brutes would have us think. So now new questions arise: how did those animals avoid the worst of competition for so many thousands of years? And how did the lion manage to survive the crises of the Pleistocene that killed off the sabertooths and so many other species of large mammals?

[all]

smilodon has very poweful forelimbs as it was stated Green Arrow. it is quite possible that his bite force was larger than previously thought. But American scimitar. Had large sagittal creast. So did smilodon but because of Homotherium serum shorter canines he didn't need to sacrifice bite force for the gape. As it was mentioned the total weight of American scimitars being larger than that of smilodon. As weight of one Homotherium serum was that of an African lion. Yes Homotherium serum was relatively gently build. But at the same time he was faster and had better stamina than smilodon. 

Lots would depend on whether or not smilodon would be able to kill the first AS quickly.

It would be a close fight. However coalition of two Homotherium serums usually wins. But like it was said they would have to be careful because smilodon can kill with one good shot.