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Post by Vodmeister on Aug 15, 2013 11:13:21 GMT 5
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Post by theropod on Aug 15, 2013 16:25:06 GMT 5
^Apparently the centipede had little problem penetrating it in the video I saw.
Also, you guys realise neither of these two is an insect?
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Post by creature386 on Aug 15, 2013 20:21:48 GMT 5
Well, the centipede looks like twice as long as the scorpion in the video, an emperor scorpion that small compared to the centipede would be a lower average specimen (except if the length numbers for that scorpion include the tail). |
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Post by Runic on Aug 16, 2013 2:08:57 GMT 5
Well, the centipede looks like twice as long as the scorpion in the video, an emperor scorpion that small compared to the centipede would be a lower average specimen (except if the length numbers for that scorpion include the tail). Tiger centipede are not that much if at all bigger than desert hairy scorpion. Your confusing length for size. |
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Post by Runic on Aug 16, 2013 2:13:16 GMT 5
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Post by Runic on Aug 16, 2013 2:16:45 GMT 5
Ice, you cannot compare the armour if a centipede to a scorpion. Indeed, giant centipedes do have scales in the upper part of their bodies, but the armour of the scorpion is leagues ahead. You said centipede lack armor. I corrected you. Where is this other stuff coming from? And it should be noted a scorpions stinger can't pierce armor. And those aren't scales they are plated. |
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Post by Vodmeister on Aug 17, 2013 2:42:00 GMT 5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrvIgNsjTzYNot entirely related with this topic, but it's interesting to see just how well scorpions do against other arthropods. The tarantula was 18 cm, the scorpion only 11 cm, the tarantula was clearly larger, yet the scorpion still won. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy4XvvsSNK0Here's a battle between a 15 cm centipede and 7 cm scorpion, yet the scorpion still won, despite the fact that the difference in size (length) between the two was larger than the difference between an emperor scorpion and giant tropical centipede.
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wiffle
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 41
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Post by wiffle on Sept 19, 2013 8:40:22 GMT 5
The scorpions' claws are not weak. They are, in fact, quite capable of crushing the ribcage and skull of a mouse and snapping the spine of a small snake. I'm sure you can find the videos yourself, although note that they are quite cruel. (I particularly felt bad for a snake in one video, where in the end it was paralyzed from the neck down and still made no attempt whatsoever to defend itself. The docility of snakes is their biggest downfall in a fight, me thinks.) There was also this video called Special Bug Deathmatches on Youtube which showed a fight between a giant centipede and some sort of forest scorpion-the latter won. There was also another matchup between 2 smaller species, where the scorpion (probably some sort of Pandinus) was also victorious. I cannot find the video anymore however. There is a clip called Scorpion vs Giant Centipede that also pits some sort of giant centipede against a forest scorpion, although the container is much too small. Nevertheless, the centipede is obviously quite large and thick. The scorpion likely won the fight, although I can't tell if the centipede would have actually died. Certainly it is still moving, but centipedes that have been literally bitten in 2 by praying mantises also put up a struggle as they are consumed and certainly such an animal has no hope of survival. There's nothing to suggest the scorpion was killed. That's actually a video you have to purchase, and I doubt you bought it. For that matter there is also a video on a giant centipede vs an emperor scorpion. Pandinus cavimanus? Aside from aggression I haven't seen anything suggesting these scorpions would have anything over an emperor in a fight. Venom is relative between species; what produces a more potent in reaction in one animal may do next to nothing in another. Imperatoxin appears to be quite effective against mice whereas another clip showed a different scorpion that landed repeated hits on a mouse but did seemingly no damage. I don't know about claw-to-body ratio, but the Emp's claws are definitely larger. Here is a comparison:  Imperator is bottom and cavimanus is middle. Upper is P. exitialis. Imperator seemingly has the largest claws of the 3, although the angle makes it unclear between it and exitialis. They are certainly quite bulky, at any rate. This is one of the largest Emperor scorpions I've ever seen, and it's suggested by the uploader's comments that it lived for about 3-4 years afterwards. You can see that the bulge of muscle on top of the claws is enormous-certainly something a wee beastie would not want to get caught up in. I don't think you can seriously compare the armor of the emperor versus the armor of the centipede. The scorpion is a tank and the centipede is an armored car by comparison. The centipede is going to have a difficult time attempting to pierce the armored regions (just about every area except for the sides and joints) of a full-grown Pandinus Imperator. Granted the scorpion's stinger cannot pierce armor well either, but it can be manipulated more precisely and to a greater extent to stab through chinks in the armor. I don't think the centipede was able to bite through the scorpion's armor. With that being said, the centipede is much smaller and this is a predator-prey relationship. However, some account called VenusianEvolution (now deleted) did upload a video with a much larger tiger centipede, and while more of a struggle, the more or less equally sized centipede was nevertheless unable to harm the scorpion. It took a Scolopendra Heros to bring down a modestly sized Desert Hairy. |
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Post by Runic on Sept 20, 2013 2:50:31 GMT 5
The scorpions' claws are not weak. They are, in fact, quite capable of crushing the ribcage and skull of a mouse and snapping the spine of a small snake. I'm sure you can find the videos yourself, although note that they are quite cruel. (I particularly felt bad for a snake in one video, where in the end it was paralyzed from the neck down and still made no attempt whatsoever to defend itself. The docility of snakes is their biggest downfall in a fight, me thinks.) There was also this video called Special Bug Deathmatches on Youtube which showed a fight between a giant centipede and some sort of forest scorpion-the latter won. There was also another matchup between 2 smaller species, where the scorpion (probably some sort of Pandinus) was also victorious. I cannot find the video anymore however. There is a clip called Scorpion vs Giant Centipede that also pits some sort of giant centipede against a forest scorpion, although the container is much too small. Nevertheless, the centipede is obviously quite large and thick. The scorpion likely won the fight, although I can't tell if the centipede would have actually died. Certainly it is still moving, but centipedes that have been literally bitten in 2 by praying mantises also put up a struggle as they are consumed and certainly such an animal has no hope of survival. There's nothing to suggest the scorpion was killed. That's actually a video you have to purchase, and I doubt you bought it. For that matter there is also a video on a giant centipede vs an emperor scorpion. Pandinus cavimanus? Aside from aggression I haven't seen anything suggesting these scorpions would have anything over an emperor in a fight. Venom is relative between species; what produces a more potent in reaction in one animal may do next to nothing in another. Imperatoxin appears to be quite effective against mice whereas another clip showed a different scorpion that landed repeated hits on a mouse but did seemingly no damage. I don't know about claw-to-body ratio, but the Emp's claws are definitely larger. Here is a comparison: Imperator is bottom and cavimanus is middle. Upper is P. exitialis. Imperator seemingly has the largest claws of the 3, although the angle makes it unclear between it and exitialis. They are certainly quite bulky, at any rate. This is one of the largest Emperor scorpions I've ever seen, and it's suggested by the uploader's comments that it lived for about 3-4 years afterwards. You can see that the bulge of muscle on top of the claws is enormous-certainly something a wee beastie would not want to get caught up in. I don't think you can seriously compare the armor of the emperor versus the armor of the centipede. The scorpion is a tank and the centipede is an armored car by comparison. The centipede is going to have a difficult time attempting to pierce the armored regions (just about every area except for the sides and joints) of a full-grown Pandinus Imperator. Granted the scorpion's stinger cannot pierce armor well either, but it can be manipulated more precisely and to a greater extent to stab through chinks in the armor. I don't think the centipede was able to bite through the scorpion's armor. With that being said, the centipede is much smaller and this is a predator-prey relationship. However, some account called VenusianEvolution (now deleted) did upload a video with a much larger tiger centipede, and while more of a struggle, the more or less equally sized centipede was nevertheless unable to harm the scorpion. It took a Scolopendra Heros to bring down a modestly sized Desert Hairy. The centipede was the winner in that pic i posted. I saw the video otherwise why would I say it won? Emperor scorpions are also known to be preyed on by giant centipede, the former of which are almost impossible to ambush due to their ability to sense minute vibrations likely suggesting full on fights happen in which the scorpion normally gets overpowered and in the bug fights centipede were considered the all around champions beating everything from beetles to larger spiders and equal WEIGHTED scorpions. Note that at equal weights a giant centipede is SIGNIFICANTLY longer than a scorpion as well as heavily plated on the back and stomach. And emperor scorpions only have larger claws because they are in general larger by a small amount however red claw scorpions are more aggressive and as with pretty much all animals of a same species the smaller ones generally beat the bigger ones in venom. Larger centipede also have no problem piercing armored animal (they prey on scorpions and armored beetles) so why is the scorpions armor taken so seriously here? Is it now made of steel or something? Spider have bitten into scorpions before in fights although the scorpions still beats them. Scorpion stingers are meant to stab softer bodied animal which is why they rarely hunt armored large insects like beetles and why its shaped like a tear drop to flex up like a knife while centepide fangs swing in together like grappling hooks to pierce (if you understand the analogy). Larger scorpions basically rely on holding down or crushing their opponents with their claws which will not work on giant centipedes as seen in many of videos where they never snap pedes in halve like sticks andccan only hold em. As for centipede vs mantis, it all depends where the mantis grabs the pede however even then there's a video of a centipede taking out a dimensionally bigger ghost mantis than it. |
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Post by Runic on Sept 20, 2013 3:05:32 GMT 5
Also I'm on a mobile so honestly if you want to keep debating expect half assed replies and broken placing because I can't type long details without my fingers aching. So yea just a f.y.I.
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Post by Runic on Sept 20, 2013 3:07:20 GMT 5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrvIgNsjTzYNot entirely related with this topic, but it's interesting to see just how well scorpions do against other arthropods. The tarantula was 18 cm, the scorpion only 11 cm, the tarantula was clearly larger, yet the scorpion still won. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy4XvvsSNK0Here's a battle between a 15 cm centipede and 7 cm scorpion, yet the scorpion still won, despite the fact that the difference in size (length) between the two was larger than the difference between an emperor scorpion and giant tropical centipede. 1St video is irrelevant, centipede kill and even prey on larger spiders. 2nd video is not found as the link says so....... |
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wiffle
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 41
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Post by wiffle on Sept 20, 2013 8:59:14 GMT 5
The video must be purchased for cash. If you saw that video, then surely you can also pay for the one with the emperor scorpion vs the giant centipede? It would also help immensely if you could perhaps upload a private video of the fight on Youtube and share it with us, in order to see whether you're correct. Please provide evidence that a predator-prey (as opposed to predators competing for the same ecological niche) relationship exists between emperor scorpions and giant centipedes. I haven't seen any videos of this sort. In every video showing an interaction between a scorpion and a centipede that I have watched, the centipede was only the victor if it was significantly larger. If you say otherwise, show a clip to the contrary. The point is that the claws are obviously larger and should be able to generate more power. The venom of a red-claw scorpion is more effective against humans, but this does not tell about whether the same goes for a giant centipede. The venom of a Sydney Funnel-Web spider is extremely potent against primates and invertebrates, but is practically harmless to a cat or dog. Furthermore, a centipede has a much lower mass, meaning its ability to withstand venom will be drastically reduced in comparison. Because that stuff is tough. You know the peacock mantis shrimp, that crustacean that goes around bludgeoning the crap out of whatever it sees while seemingly being invincible to everything in return? They don't grow much larger than 7 inches in length. That's right; these scorpions actually grow longer. Strikes from a spider with downward-facing fangs generate considerable momentum-sometimes the prey is killed without even requiring envenomation. A centipede's bite force is generated by its muscles alone. Scorpion claws are mostly blunt force crushing-type weapons. They don't require that anything gets pinched in half to work. I wasn't bringing up mantis vs anything. The point is that centipedes can still struggle after taking extreme injuries; this doesn't mean that the giant centipede that was pitted against the forest scorpion in that video actually survived. Do centipedes of the same size as that scorpion kill tarantulas that large? Here it is. www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXvcovY9xIM |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 0:52:26 GMT 5
While the Scorpion is able to crush the centipede's head with relative ease, I don't usually see it winning without being wrestled down and getting killed first. The centipede wins.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 1:38:52 GMT 5
I'd say Scorpion wins.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Feb 12, 2019 21:43:36 GMT 5
50/50. Whoever can land a hit on the other first should gain an edge
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