|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 16:43:37 GMT 5
Lion - Panthera leo The lion (Panthera leo) is a species in the family Felidae; it is a muscular, deep-chested cat with a short, rounded head, a reduced neck and round ears, and a hairy tuft at the end of its tail. It is sexually dimorphic; male lions have a prominent mane, which is the most recognisable feature of the species. With a typical head-to-body length of 184–208 cm (72–82 in) they are larger than females at 160–184 cm (63–72 in). It is a social species, forming groups called prides. A lion pride consists of a few adult males, related females and cubs. Groups of female lions usually hunt together, preying mostly on large ungulates. The lion is an apex and keystone predator, although some lions scavenge when opportunities occur, and have been known to hunt humans, although the species typically does not.  Grey Wolf (pack of 6/7) - Canis lupus The wolf (Canis lupus), also known as the gray/grey wolf, is a canine native to the wilderness and remote areas of Eurasia and North America. It is the largest extant member of its family, with males averaging 43–45 kg (95–99 lb) and females 36–38.5 kg (79–85 lb). It is distinguished from other Canis species by its larger size and less pointed features, particularly on the ears and muzzle. Its winter fur is long and bushy and predominantly a mottled gray in color, although nearly pure white, red and brown to black also occur. Mammal Species of the World (3rd ed., 2005), a standard reference work in zoology, recognises 38 subspecies of C. lupus. The wolf is the most specialized member of the genus Canis in the direction of cooperative big game hunting, as demonstrated by its morphological adaptations to tackling large prey, its more gregarious nature, and its highly advanced expressive behavior. It is nonetheless closely related enough to smaller Canis species, such as the coyote and golden jackal, to produce fertile hybrids. It is the only species of Canis to have a range encompassing both Eurasia and North America, and originated in Eurasia during the Pleistocene, colonizing North America on at least three separate occasions during the Rancholabrean. It is a social animal, travelling in nuclear families consisting of a mated pair, accompanied by the pair's adult offspring. The wolf is typically an apex predator throughout its range. It feeds primarily on large wild ungulates, though it also eats smaller animals, livestock, carrion, and garbage. A seven-year-old wolf is considered to be relatively old, and the maximum lifespan is about 16 years.  Credit to Wikipedia; wolf image by Daniel Mott |
|
|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 20, 2019 16:44:34 GMT 5
Size charts from earlier   |
|
all
Junior Member
Posts: 238
|
Post by all on Sept 21, 2019 0:17:28 GMT 5
Lion is stronger then individual wolf significantly but not 6 of them.
Lion has claws and lot of agility. Wolves have no claws however because they are lighter they will have the speed necessary. And more stamina.
Bite force of the lion is almost 700 lbs. Bite force of the wolves is 400-420 each. But those are the bites of large wolves at probably around 50 kg. There are however wolves that are still larger. the largest wolf known was 80 kg and his bite force was never measured. Largest recorded or at least estimated bite force of wolves was about 500 lbs. i would not be surprised if 80 kg wolf would have bite force over 600 lbs. I don't know how large was the lion whose bite force was measured but my guess is it was pretty large example. so I'm going with large lion 700 lbs and large wolf 420 lbs
Lion has very large canines up to 3 inches long. Wolf 1.5 inches long. however there is 6-7 wolves.
Wolves can come up from all sides and they are very good at slowly draining opponents strength with hit and run tactics. With specific order so that each of the wolves gets to a moment where it exerts only little energy meaning wolves would stay fresh. Especially since they have good stamina.
lion however is not prey for wolves but a strong and dominant predator. Nonetheless in an argument between 4 wolves and a grizzly bear grizzly usually wins but not every time. And here we are talking about 6-7 wolves who are facing a lion which is not as strong as grizzly bear. Frankly I think it would be important who was simply the hungriest.
If lion would kill enough of wolves at the beginning it would help him a lot. However the longer this goes the better for the wolves.
wolves are shy as individuals but are lot bolder in the pack and here we have a full pack. I of course assume the lion is a big male with weight on his side. However the total weight of the wolves is at least 50 kg more. And that is they are only relatively large and there is only 6 of them and lion is a record breaking specimen in terms of size.
If wolves muster up enough aggression and are determined enough plus play it smart 6-7 large wolves with brave alpha male leading them. They would win. Maybe even relatively easily.
|
|
|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 21, 2019 0:53:16 GMT 5
allBasically, I agree with your points. The wolves likely would be intimidated in the wild because none of them want to be the 1st to die, but, in a death match, I'd favor the wolves due to numbers, agility, stamina, etc. HOWEVER, just to correct the sizes: Record lion is 250 kg, record wolf 86 kg
|
|
all
Junior Member
Posts: 238
|
Post by all on Sept 22, 2019 18:36:06 GMT 5
Most sites I seen talk about 270 kg. On Quora they talk about lions that are over 300 kg. But I think that is an exaggeration. Normally lions are about 190 kg with largest being 250 kg like you said. With largest recorded 270. But 250 270 it does not matter in general if wolves find their nerve they will still win.
|
|
dromaeosauridae117
Junior Member Rank 1
Paleontology student. Biology, chemistry, geology enthusiast.
Posts: 52
|
Post by dromaeosauridae117 on Sept 24, 2019 2:57:49 GMT 5
Lion is stronger then individual wolf significantly but not 6 of them. Lion has claws and lot of agility. Wolves have no claws however because they are lighter they will have the speed necessary. And more stamina. Bite force of the lion is almost 700 lbs. Bite force of the wolves is 400-420 each. But those are the bites of large wolves at probably around 50 kg. There are however wolves that are still larger. the largest wolf known was 80 kg and his bite force was never measured. Largest recorded or at least estimated bite force of wolves was about 500 lbs. i would not be surprised if 80 kg wolf would have bite force over 600 lbs. I don't know how large was the lion whose bite force was measured but my guess is it was pretty large example. so I'm going with large lion 700 lbs and large wolf 420 lbs Lion has very large canines up to 3 inches long. Wolf 1.5 inches long. however there is 6-7 wolves. Wolves can come up from all sides and they are very good at slowly draining opponents strength with hit and run tactics. With specific order so that each of the wolves gets to a moment where it exerts only little energy meaning wolves would stay fresh. Especially since they have good stamina. lion however is not prey for wolves but a strong and dominant predator. Nonetheless in an argument between 4 wolves and a grizzly bear grizzly usually wins but not every time. And here we are talking about 6-7 wolves who are facing a lion which is not as strong as grizzly bear. Frankly I think it would be important who was simply the hungriest. If lion would kill enough of wolves at the beginning it would help him a lot. However the longer this goes the better for the wolves. wolves are shy as individuals but are lot bolder in the pack and here we have a full pack. I of course assume the lion is a big male with weight on his side. However the total weight of the wolves is at least 50 kg more. And that is they are only relatively large and there is only 6 of them and lion is a record breaking specimen in terms of size. If wolves muster up enough aggression and are determined enough plus play it smart 6-7 large wolves with brave alpha male leading them. They would win. Maybe even relatively easily. I agree with most of what you said, although I do have some things to point out. I have read a few articels describing how a fully grown male grey wolf has the potential to exert a bite force of almost 5,300 N, which translates to around 1,200 lbs, almost double that of a male lion. 5,300 N of force is bone crushing, quite literally. An adult spotted hyena can exert between 4,500-5,350 N of force. If you were to compare their skull structure, they're fairly similar, though the hyena does have a shorter, broader snout. |
|
|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 24, 2019 3:04:34 GMT 5
dromaeosauridae117Something you may wish to know: Spotted hyenas have teeth more oriented for crushing and their highest bite force is at the very back of their mouths, while wolves have a still fairly good bite force at the front and middle and have better slicing teeth
|
|
dromaeosauridae117
Junior Member Rank 1
Paleontology student. Biology, chemistry, geology enthusiast.
Posts: 52
|
Post by dromaeosauridae117 on Sept 27, 2019 4:11:28 GMT 5
dromaeosauridae117 Something you may wish to know: Spotted hyenas have teeth more oriented for crushing and their highest bite force is at the very back of their mouths, while wolves have a still fairly good bite force at the front and middle and have better slicing teeth While this is true, I was not necessarily focusing on dentition, but rather the musculature of the jaws. |
|
|
|
Post by dinosauria101 on Sept 27, 2019 4:22:20 GMT 5
dromaeosauridae117 Something you may wish to know: Spotted hyenas have teeth more oriented for crushing and their highest bite force is at the very back of their mouths, while wolves have a still fairly good bite force at the front and middle and have better slicing teeth While this is true, I was not necessarily focusing on dentition, but rather the musculature of the jaws. Ah, okay. That makes more sense. |
|
all
Junior Member
Posts: 238
|
Post by all on Sept 28, 2019 18:41:47 GMT 5
if 5300 newtons is correct than that would equal to almost 1200 lbs per square inch. That is amazing. Most sites list wolfs maximum bite force at around 400-420. And I also saw measurement on the nature show where wolf bit with 420 lbs per square inch. This was kind of defensive bite so I would not be surprised at all that wolves can bite with 500 lbs or more. Most sites list hyenas bite force at around 1100 lbs per square inch. The reason why hyena bites that hard is mostly because its very large sagittal crest. wolves have large sagittal crest as well but quite a bit smaller than hyenas. I would not be surprised if some wolves can bite with 500 lbs or more but at less all the stats of all animals on the sites I visited are wrong the maximum bite force of a wolf might be 500 lbs per square inch which by the way is already quite impressive. with Lions max bite force being listed at 650 and 691 lbs of force per square inch from what I read.
None the less pound per pound wolf's bite force is still very impressive. and as i stated pack of 6-7 wolves beats the lion relatively easily.
|
|
