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Post by kekistani on Jan 9, 2020 1:34:22 GMT 5
Where: South America, specifically the amazonian jungle and patagonia.
Terminology: Mapinguary(Tupi-Guarani conjunction), Segamai (Machigengua), Kida Harara (Kiritiana), Juma, Neomylodon Listai, Gran Bestia(?) The names mean "Twisted foot" (Tupi-Guarani), " Oneocarpus fibers"(Machigengua), "Laughing beast"(?) (Kiritiana), "Great Beast", and "Lista's New Mylodon".
The surviving ground sloth is a supposed member of the ground sloth family, either a Mylodontid or a Megalonychid, which still haunts South America. Reports usually describe the beast as 6-8 feet tall,having long arms with large claws similar in size to those of the giant armadillo (Priodontes Maximus) but similar in shape to those of the Ant-Eaters (Tamandua and Myrmecophaga) dark, shaggy hair likened to the fibers of the Oneocarpus palm (hence the Machigengua name "Segamai"), a horselike muzzle, four large canine teeth, and strange feet. It can apparently move in both Bipedal and Quadrupedal stances though the bipedal gait is apparently awkward and has been likened to a "Charlie Chaplin" walk (swaying from side to side with wide-out steps). The beast is also said to have a horrendous odor that is often the herald to its presence, strong enough to make people nauseous and faint. Vocalizations are reputed to sound like a human yell with a growl at the end, and in some reports the beast was encountered because the witnesses thought it was a lost human and had responded to it, luring it in. Roars have also been reported. The skin is apparently studded with 'stones' (most likely osteoderms) that make the creature very hard to kill. It is reputedly aggressive or at least defensive and is feared by natives in its local range. It is reported as herbivorous, feeding on berries, grasses, leaves, and the hearts of palm trees.
History: Searches for surviving giant sloths were quite popular in the 19th and 20th centuries but until the late 20th century most had discarded the idea. American Ex-pat biologist David Oren then suggested in the late 20th century that sightings of the Mapinguary were not in fact unknown anthropoid apes as had been generally accepted since the 1950's but were late surviving (but possibly then extinct) ground sloths. Oren then wrote a more extensive paper in 2001 on the subject, having collected over 80 reported sightings, including at least 6 where the beast was killed but discarded due to the stench. He has also apparently heard the beast respond to him after yelling into the night and has casted footprints supposedly left by the beast. Though he has searched extensively, none of the biological samples he has collected has come from an unknown animal. Many TV presentations have gone after the beast under the assumption it is a xenthran ,and though none have found any conclusive evidence, 2 recorded strange activity, both involving unidentified noises and one including the breaking and devouring of Palm hearts. In one case the sound was heard after a hypothetical Ground sloth call (A humanlike yell created by slowing and lowering the pitch of a two-toed sloth yell) was played out into the jungle at night.
Explanations: Glenn Shepard Jr., and Anthropologist, suggested to the Machigengua that the Segamai was a bear (Tremarctos Ornatus) that lives in the region. The natives stated that the 2 were very different animals. However, this does not discount the possibility that at least some "sloth" sightings were bears, though if the sightings in tropical brazil were bears the population would be a new and significant (though not as significant as the rediscovery of a ground sloth) discovery for science. Before the ground sloth theory was brought up,the leading theory on the identity of the Mapinguary was that it was an unidentified form of great ape. Of course, no great ape has ever been recorded in the Americas, so this theory is rather impractical and unlikely. Eyewitnesses of creatures thought to be surviving ground sloths have identified pictures and models of ground sloths as the mystery beasts. Barring misidentification, the idea that a small species of ground sloth survives in the amazon is one that, though probably unlikely, cannot be completely discarded.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 9, 2020 3:04:02 GMT 5
This is very interesting! Large parts of South America are completely unknown so this seems plausible.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 9, 2020 18:29:45 GMT 5
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Post by kekistani on Jan 9, 2020 21:01:09 GMT 5
Well, the habitat really varies. There are reports from the montane jungles and hills as well as the lowland amazon jungle. There is some belief in both outsiders and locals that the creature is migratory. I do not believe it is Mylodon specifically (too far south to be the perp and a temperate habitat IIRC) but I will not rule out a member of mylodontidae on the basis of the "stone-studded hide", which sounds very similar to the osteoderms Mylodonts posessed in their skin.
IIRC though, David Oren, who has done the most research into Mapinguary (the suggested brazilian ground sloth) believes that it is some sort of Megalonychid on the basis that people who have killed one reported 4 incisors in the mouth, something very apparent on species from that family. This identity does not neccessarily agree with all of the described traits, so either there may be more than one type of ground sloth alive (I find this unlikely) or the species has traits of both families. Of course, there may be misidentification at hand, either of the species or of the teeth (the front molars could have been accidentally interpreted as incisors).
Say, are any of the Nothrotheriids found in SA?
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jan 9, 2020 22:08:41 GMT 5
There is at least one mylodontid genus with four distinctive canine teeth in the front of its mouth ( Lestodon; not sure if other lestodontines had these), but at least from what I've read it seems to have been a specialized grazer, so I presume it must have lived in less forested areas too. Assuming it's a ground sloth (for the sake of the topic; I, of course, still find surviving ground sloths to be unlikely), it could be a mylodontid with those same canines (for whatever reason). From the looks of it, yes, including at least a couple that survived to the late Pleistocene. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothropusen.wikipedia.org/wiki/NothrotheriumThough, assuming it's a ground sloth (again, for the sake of the topic), nothrotheriids wouldn't fit the osteoderm description. Mummified skin from Nothrotheriops shows no evidence of dermal ossicles, and I don't think preserved skin and fur from Nothrotherium shows them either. |
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Post by creature386 on Jan 9, 2020 23:34:34 GMT 5
If anyone wants to know my take on how likely I think this animal is, how many new large-bodied species have discovered in South America in the last decades? That should tell you the likelihood of a big ground sloth lurking somewhere in our undiscovered gaps.
Still, interesting discussion.
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Post by kekistani on Jan 10, 2020 1:37:30 GMT 5
There is at least one mylodontid genus with four distinctive canine teeth in the front of its mouth ( Lestodon; not sure if other lestodontines had these), but at least from what I've read it seems to have been a specialized grazer, so I presume it must have lived in less forested areas too. Assuming it's a ground sloth (for the sake of the topic; I, of course, still find surviving ground sloths to be unlikely), it could be a mylodontid with those same canines (for whatever reason). I did not know that! So it is indeed possible that, if still extant, the sloth is a mylodont. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 10, 2020 1:56:32 GMT 5
If anyone wants to know my take on how likely I think this animal is, how many new large-bodied species have discovered in South America in the last decades? That should tell you the likelihood of a big ground sloth lurking somewhere in our undiscovered gaps. Still, interesting discussion. Wasn't a tapir recently discovered in SA a few years back? I know it was post 2010. The giant peccary is one I know exists, though its status as its own species is contested. The long-snouted caiman was also recently rediscovered after being considered extinct for 30+ years despite living in relatively close proximity to humans. The Chacoan Peccary is the most famous SA living fossil IIRC, being described from fossils in the 1930's only to be discovered alive and well in 1971. The precedent for ground sloth survival (though unlikely) is there, and the locales they are reported from would be the places the sloths would find their last refuge. If they do survive, then they would be very rare at this point. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 10, 2020 3:58:21 GMT 5
I think there was also a new mammalian carnivore around 2013
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Post by creature386 on Jan 10, 2020 22:45:07 GMT 5
If anyone wants to know my take on how likely I think this animal is, how many new large-bodied species have discovered in South America in the last decades? That should tell you the likelihood of a big ground sloth lurking somewhere in our undiscovered gaps. Still, interesting discussion. Wasn't a tapir recently discovered in SA a few years back? I know it was post 2010. The giant peccary is one I know exists, though its status as its own species is contested. The long-snouted caiman was also recently rediscovered after being considered extinct for 30+ years despite living in relatively close proximity to humans. The Chacoan Peccary is the most famous SA living fossil IIRC, being described from fossils in the 1930's only to be discovered alive and well in 1971. The precedent for ground sloth survival (though unlikely) is there, and the locales they are reported from would be the places the sloths would find their last refuge. If they do survive, then they would be very rare at this point. The tapir is a problematic example. It is a subspecies of an extant species, making it more "invisible" (i.e. easy to confuse with what already exists and less remarkable). This is an arguable point though, assuming it doesn't share a habitat with similar tapirs. If my research is correct, we are talking about the Colombian tapir: www.rainforesttrust.org/colombian-tapir-rediscovered/However, this tapir has been missing "only" for ten years; hardly as long as ground sloths have been invisible. Plus, it is from Colombia which seems like an exceptionally hard country to study: www.globalwildlife.org/blog/rediscovery-of-lost-caiman-leads-to-new-crocodylian-mystery/This brings us to the caiman. I'm not sure what you mean by "long-snouted caiman", there doesn't appear to be any extant species called that way: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caiman#TaxonomyGoogle also only knows about the long-snouted caiman. Maybe it's the caiman in the Global Wildfire blog I linked above, but it has never been considered extinct. The Chacoan Pecarry is a good example answer to my question though. I admit, the likelihood of a surviving ground sloth is higher than I thought. I wouldn't call it a precedence case though? Were camera traps as common a the time of its discovery as they are now? |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 10, 2020 23:18:34 GMT 5
Wasn't a tapir recently discovered in SA a few years back? I know it was post 2010. The giant peccary is one I know exists, though its status as its own species is contested. The long-snouted caiman was also recently rediscovered after being considered extinct for 30+ years despite living in relatively close proximity to humans. The Chacoan Peccary is the most famous SA living fossil IIRC, being described from fossils in the 1930's only to be discovered alive and well in 1971. The precedent for ground sloth survival (though unlikely) is there, and the locales they are reported from would be the places the sloths would find their last refuge. If they do survive, then they would be very rare at this point. The tapir is a problematic example. It is a subspecies of an extant species, making it more "invisible" (i.e. easy to confuse with what already exists and less remarkable). This is an arguable point though, assuming it doesn't share a habitat with similar tapirs. If my research is correct, we are talking about the Colombian tapir: www.rainforesttrust.org/colombian-tapir-rediscovered/However, this tapir has been missing "only" for ten years; hardly as long as ground sloths have been invisible. Plus, it is from Colombia which seems like an exceptionally hard country to study: www.globalwildlife.org/blog/rediscovery-of-lost-caiman-leads-to-new-crocodylian-mystery/This brings us to the caiman. I'm not sure what you mean by "long-snouted caiman", there doesn't appear to be any extant species called that way: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caiman#TaxonomyGoogle also only knows about the long-snouted caiman. Maybe it's the caiman in the Global Wildfire blog I linked above, but it has never been considered extinct. The Chacoan Pecarry is a good example answer to my question though. I admit, the likelihood of a surviving ground sloth is higher than I thought. I wouldn't call it a precedence case though? Were camera traps as common a the time of its discovery as they are now? On the tapir,I found what I was looking for. It's called Tapirus Kabomani. The validity is debated.
C. C(?).Aporiensis is indeed what I am referring to. www.researchgate.net/publication /337770543_Rediscovering_the_Apaporis_Caiman_Caiman_crocodilus_apaporiensis_Notes_from_a_Long-Anticipated_Expedition Note the term "Rediscovery" used in both this article and the one you linked. Even if they (the researchers) did not consider it extinct, it was extinct to science. Forrest Galante went on an expedition at around the same time as Sergio Balaguera-Reina and located multiple animals as well.
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Post by creature386 on Jan 10, 2020 23:24:09 GMT 5
C. C(?).Aporiensis is indeed what I am referring to. www.researchgate.net/publication /337770543_Rediscovering_the_Apaporis_Caiman_Caiman_crocodilus_apaporiensis_Notes_from_a_Long-Anticipated_Expedition Note the term "Rediscovery" used in both this article and the one you linked. Even if they (the researchers) did not consider it extinct, it was extinct to science. Forrest Galante went on an expedition at around the same time as Sergio Balaguera-Reina and located multiple animals as well.
It was not considered extinct because while scientists lacked sightings of it, they could not reasonably expect sightings for the reasons given in the articles. The absence of evidence is only evidence of absence if we have good reasons to suspect the presence of evidence. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 10, 2020 23:30:23 GMT 5
C. C(?).Aporiensis is indeed what I am referring to. www.researchgate.net/publication /337770543_Rediscovering_the_Apaporis_Caiman_Caiman_crocodilus_apaporiensis_Notes_from_a_Long-Anticipated_Expedition Note the term "Rediscovery" used in both this article and the one you linked. Even if they (the researchers) did not consider it extinct, it was extinct to science. Forrest Galante went on an expedition at around the same time as Sergio Balaguera-Reina and located multiple animals as well.
It was not considered extinct because while scientists lacked sightings of it, they could not reasonably expect sightings for the reasons given in the articles. The absence of evidence is only evidence of absence if we have good reasons to suspect the presence of evidence. Ah. K. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 20, 2020 9:38:06 GMT 5
For reference on the claws, here are the claws of the Giant Ant-Eater, which apparently has similar looking claws to the cryptid:  And here are the claws of the Giant Armadillo, which the cryptid beast's are reputedly the size of:  |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 29, 2020 2:35:39 GMT 5
The yellow caiman is also a special case, I don't think anyone thought it was "extinct", but westerners really weren't allowed to go there due to conflict in the region. Forrest Gallante was on Joe Rogan's podcast, and he talked more about that in depth:
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