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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 30, 2020 18:09:18 GMT 5
Dakotaraptor steini (pack of 2)  upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Dakotaraptor_wiki.jpgOrder: Theropoda Family: Dromaeosauridae Length: 5.5 meters Mass: 350 kg Diet: Other dinosaurs Age and Location: 65 million years ago, Late Cretaceous period, United States Killing apparatus: Slicing jaws, manual claws, pedal claws (based on relatives) One of the largest dromaeosaurs. Lived alongside famous dinosaurs like Triceratops and Tyrannosaurus. Shaochilong maortuensis  upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Shaochilong.jpg/800px-Shaochilong.jpgOrder: Theropoda Family: Carcharodontosauridae Length: 6 meters Mass: ~864 kg, based on relatives Diet: Other dinosaurs Age and Location: 92 million years ago, Mid Cretaceous period, China Killing apparatus: Slicing jaws, manual claws, pedal claws (based on relatives) One of the last known carcharodontosaurids and one of the smallest. The first known Asian carcharodontosaurid. NOTE: I know we already have this matchup one-on-one, but based on scaling Shaochilong down from relatives it's probably a mismatch, so this might be better. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 30, 2020 20:59:09 GMT 5
If Dakotaraptor exists, still going to shaochilong
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 30, 2020 21:15:57 GMT 5
If Dakotaraptor exists, still going to shaochilong What do you mean by that? Dakotaraptor is a perfectly valid taxon |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 31, 2020 0:21:41 GMT 5
If Dakotaraptor exists, still going to shaochilong What do you mean by that? Dakotaraptor is a perfectly valid taxon There's some controversy on whether or not it is a chimaera |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 31, 2020 0:24:00 GMT 5
What do you mean by that? Dakotaraptor is a perfectly valid taxon There's some controversy on whether or not it is a chimaera Don't you mean Anzuraptor? Dakotaraptor is indeed chimaeric (a furcula from it was actually trionychid turtle plastron), but not to the level where its validity would be questioned. Anzuraptor is however; maybe you have them confused? |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 31, 2020 0:44:41 GMT 5
There's some controversy on whether or not it is a chimaera Don't you mean Anzuraptor? Dakotaraptor is indeed chimaeric (a furcula from it was actually trionychid turtle plastron), but not to the level where its validity would be questioned. Anzuraptor is however; maybe you have them confused? No, the issue is that since Dakotaraptor was found in a multi-genus bonebed and the paper only compared it to other dromaeosaurs (IIRC), it may very well be a hodgepodge of a caegnathid, a dromaeosaur, a turtle, and who knows what else. I also find it odd that there was a "robust" form and a "Gracile" form described. Anzuraptor is not a real genus and I have found nothing on the subject. I lean toward Dakotaraptor being legitimate but I am still willing to doubt its validity due to the odd circumstances of its discovery. |
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Jan 31, 2020 1:14:11 GMT 5
The "robust/ gracile morphs" are not exactly unheard of in theropods. I'm pretty sure Tyrannosaurus was described as having something similar attributed to it, as well as Syntarsus. The paper does say that they were both close to the same age, fully grown animals, which is indeed interesting; in that way i'm sure some could hypothesize sexual dimorphism or other reasons for this peculiarity. That probably warrants further study, but not to cast doubt on validity. I don't think there's enough probable cause to doubt the validity of the genera, the authors of the original paper noted the furculae debacle and corrected it, and there's enough material from that site to warrant the validity of it as far as i can discern. I'm also confused why you think comparisons to other dromaaeosaurs is odd.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 31, 2020 1:40:32 GMT 5
Don't you mean Anzuraptor? Dakotaraptor is indeed chimaeric (a furcula from it was actually trionychid turtle plastron), but not to the level where its validity would be questioned. Anzuraptor is however; maybe you have them confused? No, the issue is that since Dakotaraptor was found in a multi-genus bonebed and the paper only compared it to other dromaeosaurs (IIRC), it may very well be a hodgepodge of a caegnathid, a dromaeosaur, a turtle, and who knows what else. I also find it odd that there was a "robust" form and a "Gracile" form described. Anzuraptor is not a real genus and I have found nothing on the subject. I lean toward Dakotaraptor being legitimate but I am still willing to doubt its validity due to the odd circumstances of its discovery. Yes, that's what I refer to. That hodgepodge was apparently Anzuraptor itself, and from what I can tell only the dromaeosaur bones were Dakotaraptor. Might be wrong though. Broly/SIW had a journal about Anzuraptor/Dakotaraptor/whatever on DA, maybe it'd help. I'll see if I can find it. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 31, 2020 1:42:46 GMT 5
No, the issue is that since Dakotaraptor was found in a multi-genus bonebed and the paper only compared it to other dromaeosaurs (IIRC), it may very well be a hodgepodge of a caegnathid, a dromaeosaur, a turtle, and who knows what else. I also find it odd that there was a "robust" form and a "Gracile" form described. Anzuraptor is not a real genus and I have found nothing on the subject. I lean toward Dakotaraptor being legitimate but I am still willing to doubt its validity due to the odd circumstances of its discovery. Yes, that's what I refer to. That hodgepodge was apparently Anzuraptor itself, and from what I can tell only the dromaeosaur bones were Dakotaraptor. Might be wrong though. Broly/SIW had a journal about Anzuraptor/Dakotaraptor/whatever on DA, maybe it'd help. I'll see if I can find it. I don't mean that it was a chimera of Anzu and Dakotaraptor specifically, just that it could be a number of different species, not necessarily anzu itself. |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 31, 2020 2:44:05 GMT 5
Yes, that's what I refer to. That hodgepodge was apparently Anzuraptor itself, and from what I can tell only the dromaeosaur bones were Dakotaraptor. Might be wrong though. Broly/SIW had a journal about Anzuraptor/Dakotaraptor/whatever on DA, maybe it'd help. I'll see if I can find it. I don't mean that it was a chimera of Anzu and Dakotaraptor specifically, just that it could be a number of different species, not necessarily anzu itself. Oh. That makes sense. That makes things iffy, then. |
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Post by kekistani on Jan 31, 2020 6:04:30 GMT 5
I don't mean that it was a chimera of Anzu and Dakotaraptor specifically, just that it could be a number of different species, not necessarily anzu itself. Oh. That makes sense. That makes things iffy, then. Now, we do know that one of those bones IS dromaeosaur and is large, so there is a giant dromaeosaur running around hell creek. How big it is or what its affinities are are up in the air provided that Dakotaraptor IS a chimera (which it also may not be). |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Jan 31, 2020 6:24:50 GMT 5
Yeah, Dakotaraptor is pretty fragmentary.
Hopefully Greg Paul's estimate is reasonably accurate for it.
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Post by 6f5e4d on Feb 11, 2020 0:28:08 GMT 5
Shaochilong wins, it is much larger and stronger than both Dakotaraptor together, with superior jaws.
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