Formidable dog thread

[Supercommunist]

I feel that working dogs are underappreciated.

Always had a soft spot for English bull terriers. Although most are horribly deformed. Some working and healthy breeding lines exist.



Three kangals fight off three wolves
www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/swe4j6/kangal_holds_off_three_wolves_long_enough_for/

[Infinity Blade]

I'm going to assume this thread is only for domestic dogs? Because I recently found some very interesting information on Borophagus, and I don't really have any other place to put it other than in recommended literature. Not only was it big, but it actually had adaptations for grappling. It had characteristics of an ambush predator, not a cursorial one.

A study by von Pfeil et al. (Reference von Pfeil and DeCamp 2009) examined the epiphyseal plates in modern canids and found that most domestic dogs reach 90% of their adult size by 10 months, with the majority of growth plates fusing between 4–12 months. The proximal humeral epiphysis fully fuses between 10–12 months of age, while the distal humeral epiphysis fuses earlier, between 5–8 months (von Pfeil et al., Reference von Pfeil and DeCamp2009). The distal epiphysis of the humerus from the GFS specimen is fully fused, but the proximal epiphysis is partially fused, suggesting the GFS specimen is most likely between the ages of 8–12 months. A body mass estimate was calculated using published equations; the formula provided by Anyonge (Reference Anyonge 1993) yielded a body mass estimate of 74.13 kg, while that of Figuerido et al. (Reference Figueirido and Janis 2011) produced a body mass estimate of 52.48 kg.

The shoulder moment index (SMI) of ETMNH 10545 is similar to Hesperocyon gregarious, Paraenhydrocyon josephi, and Phlaocyon leucosteus, indicating a high mechanical advantage across the shoulder joint (Fig. 3). Paraenhydrocyon josephi, an early member of the hesperocyonine subfamily, was adapted for a semi-arboreal lifestyle, while H. gregarious evolved in a forested environment. The humeral robustness indices (HRIs) of C. dirus, H. gregarious, and P. josephi are similar to the GFS specimen (Fig. 3). The relative size of the humeral epicondyles (HEB) in ETMNH 10545 is much greater than all other canids studied, other than P. josephi, and quite distinct from the relatively narrow epicondyles of cursorially adapted pursuit predators (Fig. 3). The large medial epicondyle would have provided for large areas of origin for the wrist and digital flexors, which would have facilitated grasping movements that are typical of ambush hunting predators. Due to the somewhat similar dimensions with the four taxa listed above, it can be concluded the GFS Borophagus was not well adapted for running long distances and most likely was not a pursuit predator. Borophagus may have spent some of its time digging, possibly for refuge from larger competitors (given its size, it needed to feed on prey 50% of its size) (Carbone et al., Reference Carbone, Mace, Roberts and Macdonald1999, Reference Carbone, Teacher and Rowcliffe 2007).

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-paleontology/article/first-canid-from-the-gray-fossil-site-in-tennessee-new-perspective-on-the-distribution-and-ecology-of-borophagus/DDA3CF752FB1D82DCB409F114C2547D1

I think this thing might officially be my favorite carnivoran of all time!

[elosha11]

Borophagus is a unique, huge, and scary canid! unless supercommunist objects, I think it would be cool to include both extinct and current ones, but I do believe he's wanting to focus domestic dogs, which I agree are often underestimated.

We could start two different threads, one for domestic working dogs nowadays, and one for extinct canids of all kinds.

[Supercommunist]

Given that there is only one post I don't mind. Better to merge it than have a dead thread. I wonder if grappling dogs still had high amounts of stamina. Ambush predator imply low endurance, but given that bears are known to run down prey for miles on end it doesn't seem that grappling necessarily means they are limited to short chases.

[Supercommunist]

Ovcharka overpowers a wolf.




A single kangal holds its own against 3 wolves long enough for its packmates to arrive.



Dog bites a leopard:

[Bolushi]

May 15, 2022 1:34:29 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

I feel that working dogs are underappreciated.

Always had a soft spot for English bull terriers. Although most are horribly deformed. Some working and healthy breeding lines exist.



Three kangals fight off three wolves
www.reddit.com/r/HardcoreNature/comments/swe4j6/kangal_holds_off_three_wolves_long_enough_for/

I know there are a lot of too far gone show lines but regular eggheads are appreciated very much in working dog circles so long as the head isn't pointing down like a manatee. They're a common cross too. Pure EBTs for hunting are known to be good, but lacking in leg length. A lot of Aussie pig dogs have clear EBT in the face, like the Burr Lee Bullstag which is a line of EBTs crossed with staghounds -

Many imported dogs to Australia (All of Australia's bull breed blood is imported) had deal breaking faults. Dogue De Bordeaux have no drive, Cane Corsos were imported but the imports were from Italian lines and Italian lines of Corso are trash so the Corsos that came to Australia were trash nervy fearbiting and overall useless dogs etc. etc.
EBTs, boxers and such had no such deal breaking issues. It can all be fixed in a cross, and even pure they weren't bad. In a place where APBTs are banned the EBT is the next best pick... not to say there are no APBTs in Australia. Many are unchecked for, the government doesn't care. The Bloom Brothers publicly broadcasted their pig dog had pitbull blood, made DVDs with it and everything. Lol. A lot of Sorrels line APBTs in Australia too. However it's mostly EBTs contributing to pig dog lines. They are good with the climate, can breathe well, move well, have a good temperament... some novice American hunters assume EBTs can't work but Australians, because of their dumb haphazard way of doing things, simply throw random dogs at pigs and see what happens. Rigorous trial and error proves EBTs are no joke despite their "ruined show dog" status.

[Bolushi]

I'll light this thread up a bit later. I have all sorts of stuff on working dogs beating the shit out of wild animals. Actual predatory dogs like bull breeds, sighthounds and terriers, not LGDs.

[Supercommunist]

Jun 20, 2023 8:56:47 GMT 5 Bolushi said:

I'll light this thread up a bit later. I have all sorts of stuff on working dogs beating the shit out of wild animals. Actual predatory dogs like bull breeds, sighthounds and terriers, not LGDs.

You will probably want to avoid posting hunting videos/images. I think they are against the rules and I proboards has a low tolerance for that as well.

Edit: written accounts are probably okay.

[Bolushi]

Jun 20, 2023 21:42:33 GMT 5 Supercommunist said:

Jun 20, 2023 8:56:47 GMT 5 Bolushi said:

I'll light this thread up a bit later. I have all sorts of stuff on working dogs beating the shit out of wild animals. Actual predatory dogs like bull breeds, sighthounds and terriers, not LGDs.

You will probably want to avoid posting hunting videos/images. I think they are against the rules and I proboards has a low tolerance for that as well.

Edit: written accounts are probably okay.

Well that's a pain. Lol, my 100s of images and videos that nobody in these communities have seen ever are all hunting stuff. Yikes. What about hunting invasives like hogs, is that allowed?
Anyways all hope is not lost just yet - 

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/oryx/article/more-bark-than-bite-the-role-of-livestock-guarding-dogs-in-predator-control-on-namibian-farmlands/607619E840644481488447558D32279B