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Post by spinosaurus1 on Mar 8, 2014 14:33:05 GMT 5
that was along my line of thinking. i agree
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 8, 2014 21:12:32 GMT 5
Size (especially if it's by roughly four fold)>speed and agility IMHO.
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 12, 2014 1:48:30 GMT 5
Size (especially if it's by roughly four fold)>speed and agility IMHO. That doesn't stop felines from killing bovines four times their own size (if not more), and that's despite the fact that bovines are more agile than crocodiles on land. |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 12, 2014 1:57:53 GMT 5
I don't think it's good to compare a herbivore to a carnivore here Vodmeister, even though the former is more adapted to terrestrial life in this case.
Herbivores (obviously) just aren't as good of killers as carnivores. Killing is not their original purpose, let alone committed by them on a regular basis. It's perfectly fine to imagine a predator killing a herbivore several times its size at times, but it just doesn't happen with a carnivore.
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 12, 2014 2:28:21 GMT 5
I think you are underestimating bovines quite a bit, dinopithecus. A large buffalo can weigh up to 2,000 pounds, that is as big as the largest crocodiles. Likewise, they can do a lot of damage with their horns and hoofs, and can be quite aggressive when threatened. Lastly, bovines are much faster than crocodiles on land.
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Post by Infinity Blade on Mar 12, 2014 2:41:09 GMT 5
You don't need to tell me buffalo are dangerous animals. Just that it's easier to imagine a carnivore taking down a much larger herbivore than it doing the same to a much larger carnivore. I'm sure you know this. As a whole, carnivores taking down herbivores heavier than themselves has happened a good amount of times. How many times has it happened with a much larger carnivore? Thus, as tough and dangerous and more adapted to land life compared to these reptiles as buffalo are, I wouldn't be too sure about comparing it to a similar-sized crocodile in this instance.
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Post by Runic on Mar 12, 2014 3:33:57 GMT 5
Size (especially if it's by roughly four fold)>speed and agility IMHO. That doesn't stop felines from killing bovines four times their own size (if not more), and that's despite the fact that bovines are more agile than crocodiles on land. Which would a 500lb carnivore have more trouble with, a 2000lb bovid or a 1, 000 predator? |
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 12, 2014 3:39:16 GMT 5
That doesn't stop felines from killing bovines four times their own size (if not more), and that's despite the fact that bovines are more agile than crocodiles on land. Which would a 500lb carnivore have more trouble with, a 2000lb bovid or a 1, 000 predator? Does the 1,000 pound predator have the same mobility as a crocodile on land? If so, a lion would have an easier time killing the predator than the bovine. |
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Post by Runic on Mar 12, 2014 3:42:11 GMT 5
Which would a 500lb carnivore have more trouble with, a 2000lb bovid or a 1, 000 predator? Does the 1,000 pound predator have the same mobility as a crocodile on land? If so, a lion would have an easier time killing the predator than the bovine. It seems the point flew over your head..... but fine we'll play by your rules. Which would a 500lb predator have more trouble with in shallow water, a 2000 bovine or a 1,000 crocodile? Boom there the crocs handicap is gone. |
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Post by Vodmeister on Mar 12, 2014 4:41:06 GMT 5
Does the 1,000 pound predator have the same mobility as a crocodile on land? If so, a lion would have an easier time killing the predator than the bovine. It seems the point flew over your head..... but fine we'll play by your rules. Which would a 500lb predator have more trouble with in shallow water, a 2000 bovine or a 1,000 crocodile? Boom there the crocs handicap is gone. In that case, the 1,000 lb crocodile would most certainly be harder to kill. And no point "flew over my head". In fact, I was merely defending my p.o.v that on land, the lion would more often than not win. |
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Post by Runic on Mar 12, 2014 4:49:27 GMT 5
It seems the point flew over your head..... but fine we'll play by your rules. Which would a 500lb predator have more trouble with in shallow water, a 2000 bovine or a 1,000 crocodile? Boom there the crocs handicap is gone. In that case, the 1,000 lb crocodile would most certainly be harder to kill. And no point "flew over my head". In fact, I was merely defending my p.o.v that on land, the lion would more often than not win. Yea the point did fly over your head. It was enforcing dinopithecus was right. A predator can frequently kill prey many times its own size yet predator rarely if ever kill another predator many times their size hence your comment towards Dino was invalid. |
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Post by spinosaurus1 on Mar 13, 2014 5:03:30 GMT 5
i have to agree with the statement above along with dino's points. just because a predator can kill a signifagently larger herbavore does not equel to it being able to kill a signifigantly larger predator. the rules are just not the same
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Post by Ceratodromeus on Sept 19, 2016 4:57:47 GMT 5
I made this post on the size of nile crocodiles and lion induced mortality on carnivora, as some of the same instances are posted here this post addressing them fits nicely A large male nile crocodile would be in the ball park of 5-5.5m in total length and a mass of 600-700kg; Gerard wood, in his guiness book of animal facts & feats, wrote on an animal measuring 5.8m in total length with an estimated mass of 794-816kg, and a 4.8m animal weighing in at 680kg, all of these are of course a lot bigger than the largest lions. the figure in the OP describing the record length of a nile crocodile is an estimate, presented in Wood(1982), the slightly lower figure presented was 2300lbs. not significant but warranting clarification i guess. The thing with crocodiles is not as tricky as it commonly portrayed to be, like a lot of large predators with wide geographic ranges they vary tremendously. ~3-4.5 is what you can expect a typical adult nile crocodile to measure in total body length. They mature around 2.5m in total body length, with this of course varying from population to population(lake rudolph males matured at either 1.8 or 3.3m in total length at extremes) as well as sex(lake rudolph females matured at 1.7 or 3.0 in total length at extremes), but these animals shouldn't really be regarded in this match up, as a young crocodile against an adult lion is very one sided. Now here is a very large (500+) sample of animals from different localities that should clear up what a typical nile will weigh, of course taking the bit i've written about sexual maturity into consideration.  As a general statement i think average adult male crocodiles are about as big as the larger lions and the adult female crocodiles are more around the size of average lions. Now what is very interesting is that the dissertation this is from (Graham 1968), it is reported that lions do not/ had not been observed killing crocodiles over 3.2 meters in total body length. That is also probably worth taking into consideration; lions don't likely kill crocodiles larger than themselves by themselves. From Alistair Grahams 1968 dissertation on Lake Rudolph Nile CrocodilesAddressing the three legged lion killing the ~3m crocodile, whilst again very fascinating to see, is not a very large crocodile at all, just reaching maturity perhaps not too long ago and in the ballpark of ~100kg. |
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Post by jhg on Sept 20, 2016 2:26:03 GMT 5
How is this match possible?! Water; croc. Land; lion.
Oh and...I'M BACK!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 8:14:25 GMT 5
Good to know. Anyway, the lion has difficulty winning even on land.
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