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Post by Runic on Nov 1, 2013 19:49:47 GMT 5
Bears and humans are better grapplers than cats and they and us don't have hooked claws. Why does everyone over exaggerate the use of claws? Okay Bears I can see being better grappler's than Cat's, but Humans? Really I call BS...... I really should facepalm you for that comment.... like really...... what cat do you know can manipulate their arms, legs and even fingers to control objects like we can? I want to see a cat write with a pencil. Great apes are some of IF NOT THE best mammalian animals capable of grappling. Yes that means we are better grapplers than bears, cats, chimps, etc. Pit a man against a declawed and defanged cougar in a strict grappling match and the man will get the cat in some type of lock fairly quickly. |
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Post by DinosaurMichael on Nov 1, 2013 19:53:23 GMT 5
Okay Bears I can see being better grappler's than Cat's, but Humans? Really I call BS...... I really should facepalm you for that comment.... like really...... what cat do you know can manipulate their arms, legs and even fingers to control objects like we can? I want to see a cat write with a pencil. Great apes are some of IF NOT THE best mammalian animals capable of grappling. Yes that means we are better grapplers than bears, cats, chimps, etc. Pit a man against a declawed and defanged cougar in a strict grappling match and the man will get the cat in some type of lock fairly quickly. I just thought that things with claws help them grapple better. My bad. |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Nov 1, 2013 22:30:01 GMT 5
cats in general are better sprintters but cant maintain speed like Canines, as for the reflexes I think its more along the lines of greater agility then reflexes. Wolves and Wild dogs today have higher top speeds than the majority of extant cats. Yes even cougar and lion. Good job, countering a generalized statement with specific examples! Your brilliant, utterly brilliant! |
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Nov 1, 2013 22:32:31 GMT 5
Okay Bears I can see being better grappler's than Cat's, but Humans? Really I call BS...... I really should facepalm you for that comment.... like really...... what cat do you know can manipulate their arms, legs and even fingers to control objects like we can? I want to see a cat write with a pencil. Great apes are some of IF NOT THE best mammalian animals capable of grappling. Yes that means we are better grapplers than bears, cats, chimps, etc. Pit a man against a declawed and defanged cougar in a strict grappling match and the man will get the cat in some type of lock fairly quickly. Constrictor snakes are grapplers supreme and they dont have any limbs that aid the proccess at all. Dextarity=\=equal superior grappling always, usually but not always. |
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Post by theropod on Nov 1, 2013 23:00:42 GMT 5
Do you have reliable data on the top speeds of extant felids and canids BI? That would be interesting.
Anyway, accelleration is much more important in a fight than top speed, but so is stamina.
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Post by creature386 on Nov 2, 2013 0:07:24 GMT 5
Wolves and Wild dogs today have higher top speeds than the majority of extant cats. Yes even cougar and lion. Good job, countering a generalized statement with specific examples! Your brilliant, utterly brilliant! Well, canids are (unlike felids) cursorial, so I don't see why cats should be generally faster. |
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 0:22:22 GMT 5
Wolves and Wild dogs today have higher top speeds than the majority of extant cats. Yes even cougar and lion. Good job, countering a generalized statement with specific examples! Your brilliant, utterly brilliant! I actually was dumbing it down for you by implying that dogs are faster than cats. Apparently you didn't get the hint. Thanks for calling me brilliant tho  |
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 0:23:05 GMT 5
I really should facepalm you for that comment.... like really...... what cat do you know can manipulate their arms, legs and even fingers to control objects like we can? I want to see a cat write with a pencil. Great apes are some of IF NOT THE best mammalian animals capable of grappling. Yes that means we are better grapplers than bears, cats, chimps, etc. Pit a man against a declawed and defanged cougar in a strict grappling match and the man will get the cat in some type of lock fairly quickly. Constrictor snakes are grapplers supreme and they dont have any limbs that aid the proccess at all. Dextarity=\=equal superior grappling always, usually but not always. Constricting is not grappling. But nice try tho! |
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 0:25:56 GMT 5
Do you have reliable data on the top speeds of extant felids and canids BI? That would be interesting. Anyway, accelleration is much more important in a fight than top speed, but so is stamina. I once posted top speeds comparing several dogs (wild of course) to felines of similar size or even bigger (lion tigers etc). Dogs generally had higher TOP speeds while cats had greater accelerating. I never stated it meant much in a fight like you implied I did. I simply corrected DMs "faster" advantage as top speed is not an advantage otherwise cheetahs would be unstoppable. Edit : TBH acceleration is irrelevant really as well. I think you mean agility. |
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Post by theropod on Nov 2, 2013 2:56:34 GMT 5
I did not imply you did, I added something to what you stated. Accelleration is, of course, part of agility, tough not the only one.
How is an animal supposed to be agile without being able to accellerate quickly? That's among the foremost reasons why lions are more agile than elephants.
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 3:14:33 GMT 5
I did not imply you did, I added something to what you stated. Accelleration is, of course, part of agility, tough not the only one. How is an animal supposed to be agile without being able to accellerate quickly? That's among the foremost reasons why lions are more agile than elephants. Definition of acceleration The rate in which the velocity of a body changes with time. Accelerating generally happens in a linear direction (example the time it takes a cheetah to reach full speed from a still position). When something is running full speed and then suddenly turns without deceleration they will most likely wound up breaking something. Definition of agility Ability to change the bodies position efficiently. Acceleration is not a component of agility. Acceleration is a component of speed. |
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Post by creature386 on Nov 2, 2013 3:21:28 GMT 5
According to the definition on wikipedia, speed is a component of agility, so acceleration would be a component too (in an indirect way):
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Post by theropod on Nov 2, 2013 3:35:52 GMT 5
Changing velocity is a crucial point.
While top-speed may be virtually irrelevant to it (which is BECAUSE of accelleration, because attaining the top speed usually takes longer than the time a phase of locomotion will last and is not directly related to the speed which the animal will attain in a given amount of time), it matters a lot how quickly an animal can get its body to move in one or another direction. Accelleration is thus relevant to maneuverability since of course it is related to how quickly an animal can alter its direction or move it at all.
As the "ability to change the bodies position", the time it takes the body to accellerate is of course very important for agility
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 3:37:26 GMT 5
According to the definition on wikipedia, speed is a component of agility, so acceleration would be a component too (in an indirect way): So that proves my point. Acceleration is not a part of agility. In physics you cannot jump across terms like this otherwise the whole assumption will be incorrect. |
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Post by Runic on Nov 2, 2013 3:38:38 GMT 5
Changing velocity is a crucial point. While top-speed may be virtually irrelevant to it (which is BECAUSE of accelleration, because attaining the top speed usually takes longer than the time a phase of locomotion will last and is not directly related to the speed which the animal will attain in a given amount of time), it matters a lot how quickly an animal can get its body to move in one or another direction. Accelleration is thus relevant to maneuverability since of course it is related to how quickly an animal can alter its direction or move it at all. As the "ability to change the bodies position", the time it takes the body to accellerate is of course very important for agility Acceleration MOSTLY happens in a linear direction. If acceleration was a part of agility like you say, lions would mainly only be agile in straight lines. Which is incorrect as stated earlier by me. |
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