Fantasy & Fictional Face-offs Requests

[creature386]

Yeah, I'm kinda worried about approving so many matchups with no replies. I might be a bit to lenient. Since the Elasmotherium vs GWS thread has not been made yet, maybe Infinity Blade can also say if he thinks we have enough such threads.

[dinosauria101]

My ideas:
1: For the Elasmotherium vs GWS thread, the shark can only move up to 2.5 meters high - the same height as the chests of many large theropods Elasmotherium is often matched up with
2: For the issue we discussed in the bullfrog vs Majungasaurus thread, I can specify in all matchups where significant scaling is needed that all negative allometry (or whatever it's called) is to be ignored
3: As for threads with no replies, I could do what I did in the AvA section - delete and repost as many times as needed

[dinosauria101]

Infinity Blade
What are your thoughts on my suggestions to keep order? (All the while I will contribute well too)

[Infinity Blade]

Don't repost for a while after deleting a thread with no replies. Perhaps use that time to think about what would be more popular. In fact, if you have a lot of different thread ideas, replace the deleted thread with your next idea, preferably something that's not simply a variation of the former topic.

As for your great white v Elasmotherium thread, fine. Ideally, though, given the significant change we have to make for both to function in the same medium, we should probably keep such threads to a minimum.

As for the second thing, the best I can say is pretend that whatever animal you're scaling up or down magically achieves such a size with that exact body plan naturally. But don't ignore real-life things like the consequences of falling/the need for greater stability at larger sizes, or blunt trauma being more effective at larger sizes than at smaller sizes (this is actually due to the square cube law). Essentially, you have to pick and choose certain aspects of the square cube law to still hold true in order to make such a thread as fair as possible. Ideally, we should probably keep threads like this to a minimum as well; I'm not even sure if what I just said makes sense, which should be reason enough to be conservative with how many of these kinds of topics we pump out.

Edit: just to illustrate what I'm talking about, let me provide an example. Let's say you wanted to pit an ant against an elephant at parity.

• As per the square cube law, the ant would realistically utterly collapse under its own weight and overheat if made as large as an elephant, while the elephant would realistically freeze to death if made as small as an ant. Ignore that; just assume that somehow the ant's skeleton and musculature can magically support its body weight at the size of the elephant and that it won't overheat to death, while a scaled-down elephant wouldn't freeze to death.
• At the same time, however, we don't want to assume that the ant's strength grows linearly if we scale it up; ants can lift what? 20 times their own weight? Yeah, we don't want our 6t ant to be capable of lifting 120t. Assume real-life scaling laws to figure out the ant's strength at such a size. Similarly, I don't think it would be an interesting thread if our scaled-down elephant could utterly crunch the ant in two as per the square cube law.
• Falling down at multi ton sizes should still hurt, while falling down at the size of the ant should be just about inconsequential, as is the case in real life.

Someone please let me know if this makes any sort of sense. Again, that I had to think this up and am not even sure if it even works in its entirety just illustrates why we should keep these threads to a minimum.

[creature386]

Animals have their own set of rules now. I also thought of a way how to deal with matches which should not strictly be prohibited, but might still need some regulation (approval of both mods). What do you guys think?

Rules for fictional characters:
1. Request something people actually debate about which is a more fancy word of saying it should be no mismatch. Naturally, mismatches for fictional characters are harder to evaluate than for animals since it often depends on the assumption which is why I used the criterion "This is something people debate about". If one character can supposedly destroy a billion times more planets than the other, but the calculations this is based on are dubious (and according to other calculations, the other character might have the edge), I'd say the thread goes.
2. That should go without saying, but you should specify the version of the characters you are using.
3. There should be some connection (in King Kong vs Indominus rex, the connection would be "both are famous movie monsters"). This is not strictly necessary, but I'd personally be more lenient on matches with a strong connection if they don't meet the other criteria so well. Even if it's a mismatch, you can see why people want this thread. The connection thing also exists because fictional characters allow for more possible pairings than animals and it's easy for the threads to just become random.
4. Keep matches between characters from different media require the approval of both me and Infinity Blade due to problems inherent with them. Characters from literature, movies or live-action television tend to be fairly realistic (physics-wise, due to limitations of the medium). Those from comics, cartoons, anime or video games not. If they aren't, the discussion can become really awkward.
The same applies to "problematic" genres. Comedy cartoon characters are not supposed to make sense (same applies for feats from an otherwise serious show played for laughs). Horror and creepypasta characters rarely have defined limits (they're supposed to be unknowable to be scary). I'm not saying such characters can't be used, but that this should be kept in mind.
5. Be ready to provide information on characters who have no respect threads, no vsbattles page and no deathbattlefanon pages.

Now, five rules for animals:
1. The "no-mismatch" rule applies here as well.
2. It is best to specify the weights of the animals you are using. An advantage of this section.
3. Don't post matches which, in a slightly varied version, would work in the AVA section. Don't request "Daspletosaurus vs Triceratops at parity" when you could instead use a T. rex without changing much. Take advantage of the fact that you're here.
4. The "medium" rule applies here as well. Matches between animals from different media need the approval of both me and Infinity Blade. Aquatic and terrestrial animals move in significantly different manners.
Same applies to animals from different size classes. Size influences many factors from heat management to speed to stamina to relative lifting strength to how lethal toppling over is. It is almost impossible to ignore all of this.
5. Be ready to provide information on obscure animals.

I have no rules for gauntlets yet, but maybe it's because I just don't see the problems yet.

[dinosauria101]

So, how about this:
-More gauntlets and fantasy character matchups (the latter won't be too unrealistic)
-Less matchups that need significant scaling up or down/neutral terrain
-When it comes time to delete/repost, I'll wait 2 or 3 days before reposting, and when it comes time to do so, I'll either tweak the thread to be more similar to one that was more popular, or post another one I think may be more popular

[Infinity Blade]

I guess that sounds about right.

[creature386]

rock
This is the second time now that you created a thread not approved by this thread (and I deleted both), even though you are the main reason we even made such rules. Did you just overlook it?

[rock]

Aug 9, 2019 22:02:10 GMT 5 creature386 said:

rock
This is the second time now that you created a thread not approved by this thread (and I deleted both), even though you are the main reason we even made such rules. Did you just overlook it?

forgot to read this , anyhow sorry

[rock]

heres a few ideas of mine

naruto vs goku [stats equal]

megaman vs mario

sonic vs ryu

tell me if these are ok

[creature386]

These are a bit difficult to evaluate (so I'll wait for Infinity Blade's input).
Equalizing stats tends to be more easy for fictional characters than for animals since in the former, the laws of physics are a lot priority anyway.

For the other two, it really depends on the versions used.

[rock]

Aug 9, 2019 22:10:34 GMT 5 creature386 said:

These are a bit difficult to evaluate (so I'll wait for Infinity Blade's input).
Equalizing stats tends to be more easy for fictional characters than for animals since in the former, the laws of physics are a lot priority anyway.

For the other two, it really depends on the versions used.

i was thinking of classic sonic

vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Classic)

vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ryu_(Street_Fighter)

cancel that one i dont think megaman would do too well against any version of mario as they are all either high planet or galaxy level

[Infinity Blade]

Isn't a stats equal fight kind of pointless? Can you make an argument for why either one's other abilities will give them the edge, rock?

[rock]

Aug 9, 2019 23:38:15 GMT 5 Infinity Blade said:

Isn't a stats equal fight kind of pointless? Can you make an argument for why either one's other abilities will give them the edge, rock?

the reason many people say goku vs naruto is a mismatch is because goku is universal , while naruto is a low tier planet buster , but if we equaled out those factors then naruto can stand a chance if we put naruto up to universal tier

[creature386]

I think I'd add that we already have at least three Naruto vs DBZ verse matchups, that should be enough.

I'll post my verdict on the other two later.