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Post by brobear on Feb 16, 2020 14:42:33 GMT 5
When a grizzly ventures towards a tiger on his kill, the tiger simply leaves the carcass to the bear and disappears into the forest. There is no evidence left behind; no evidence of a struggle. There is no struggle. To the eyes of a hunter or a biologists, there is no evidence that the two animals even so much as see each other. Why do I firmly believe this? A leopard will not defend a carcass from a sloth bear. A cougar will not defend a carcass from a black bear. It is not in the nature of a cat to go head-to-head against a bear. We can see this clearly by observing a tiger against a sloth bear who stands his ground. If the tiger refuses to "go in for the kill" against a sloth bear half his size, why would anyone expect him to fight a mature boar grizzly face-to-face? I believe that the Russian grizzly routinely displaces the tiger just as a bear displaces wolves, cougars, and leopards. This is what a bear does. *Where is my evidence. The evidence is in the nature of the bear and in the nature of the cat.  ( Lion might be the exception to the rule ). |
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Feb 16, 2020 20:24:04 GMT 5
When a grizzly ventures towards a tiger on his kill, the tiger simply leaves the carcass to the bear and disappears into the forest. There is no evidence left behind; no evidence of a struggle. There is no struggle. To the eyes of a hunter or a biologists, there is no evidence that the two animals even so much as see each other. Why do I firmly believe this? A leopard will not defend a carcass from a sloth bear. A cougar will not defend a carcass from a black bear. It is not in the nature of a cat to go head-to-head against a bear. We can see this clearly by observing a tiger against a sloth bear who stands his ground. If the tiger refuses to "go in for the kill" against a sloth bear half his size, why would anyone expect him to fight a mature boar grizzly face-to-face? I believe that the Russian grizzly routinely displaces the tiger just as a bear displaces wolves, cougars, and leopards. This is what a bear does. *Where is my evidence. The evidence is in the nature of the bear and in the nature of the cat. ( Lion might be the exception to the rule ).
According to ONLY YOU, when a grizzly ventures towards a tiger, the tiger simply "leaves" the carcass. This of course is based off absolutely no shred of evidence or accounts at all. Just pure fantasy.
But lets see what actual experts and biologists, like Matjushkyn have observed when these two beasts meet at kill-sites....
Matjushkyn ( Who's studied tigers and bears in the wild for several decades ) observed that when tigers encounter Brown bears at kill-sites, the bear almost always surrenders its kill to the tiger:
And here we have another source confirming this:
archive.org/details/beachamsinternat00walt?q=Beacham%27s+Guide+to+International+Endangered+Species%2C
And tigers also kill full-grown ADULT Brown bears solely on principle. And not just kill them, but literally tear the bears apart, limb from limb, to the point where the bears appendages are scattered across the battle ground.
Remember, there is no creature in the taiga, that is off limits to the taiga. Brown bears are food for tigers, its that simple.
And in most cases of face-to-face confrontations between tigers and sloth bears, it is the bear that runs away for its life. I even showed you numerous videos of large male sloth bears getting scared and running from juvenile tigers and tigresses!
In face-to-face interactions, tigers dominate sloth bears. And the sloth bear, like all bears, is also food for the tiger.
Its not in the nature of a cat to go face-to-face against a bear? Is it? Then explain this?....
Large male grizzly bear runs away from a FEMALE Cougar!
And also, why is it, that in every single fight statistic that documents face-to-face fights between tigers and Brown bears, the tiger won most fights? In some statistics, the tiger completely dominated the Brown bear in head-on fights.
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Feb 16, 2020 20:36:02 GMT 5
No genius, but the natives who have lived alongside tigers and bears for thousands and thousands of years, from their observations and experiences, came to that conclusion.
And why are you talking to me? You haven't got a clue about tigers, your a complete waste of my time. The "King of the Forest" fears only "The Boss of the Woods" - the mature male grizzly.
But the Grizzly being the so-called "Boss of the Woods" is literally only a figment of your imagination. And you know it. Nothing but a made-up fantasy.
I also showed you TWO sources from Russian authorities who stated that the bears fear the Amur tigers. Can you show me just one single statement from anyone, that said the tiger "fears" the mature male grizzly bear?....I guarantee you right now, you'll never find it in a million years.
Because last time I checked, biologist Lev Kaplanov, observed a VERY LARGE mature male grizzly bear running away from tiger tracks!  |
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Post by brobear on Feb 16, 2020 20:51:30 GMT 5
The term "Boss of the Woods" has been used in several books I have read concerning the historic grizzly. But here again, just a man's perspective. Point is, even the biggest strongest tiger in the taiga fears to ambush a mature male Ussuri brown bear.
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mountainlord
Member
Tiger - The Legendary Killer of Brown bears
Posts: 309
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Post by mountainlord on Feb 16, 2020 21:01:25 GMT 5
The term "Boss of the Woods" has been used in several books I have read concerning the historic grizzly. But here again, just a man's perspective. Point is, even the biggest strongest tiger in the taiga fears to ambush a mature male Ussuri brown bear.
And if the biggest strongest tiger in the taiga, "fears" to ambush a mature male Brown bear, then how comes on Wildfact, you have openly admitted numerous times that you think that tigers have killed mature male Brown bears on many occasions?
How comes you said that you think there's historically been HUNDREDS of cases of tigers killing full-grown healthy mature male Brown bears?
Shall I show you these posts? Why did you say all these things?
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Post by brobear on Feb 17, 2020 2:52:30 GMT 5
The stupidest thing I could possibly do is to keep arguing with a juvenile fan-boy. You will never man-up. Bye boy. |
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:24:33 GMT 5
Hello ladies and gentleman, as you guys have seen in the last few months, MountainLord (ML), has posted all of his tiger "superiority" accounts, well thats awesome. So, even after he posted all of his accounts and reports, i see that the poll is 14 to 7 in favour of the brown bear, this means that all of what he posted is good to convince him, but obviously no one else. Thats the point.
Ok so now, its time to see the other side, the bear's side ok guys? The side that ML completely ignores. So let us start.
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tijkil
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 58
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Post by tijkil on Feb 17, 2020 9:28:41 GMT 5
Hello ladies and gentleman, as you guys have seen in the last few months, MountainLord (ML), has posted all of his tiger "superiority" accounts, well thats awesome. So, even after he posted all of his accounts and reports, i see that the poll is 14 to 7 in favour of the brown bear, this means that all of what he posted is good to convince him, but obviously no one else. Thats the point.
Ok so now, its time to see the other side, the bear's side ok guys? The side that ML completely ignores. So let us start. You are just like your sister, mountainlord 🤣🤣🤣🤣 cherry picking and spreading misinformation. Not bias, so funny 😂😂😂 You will never say or show anything you don't like, try being objective fangirl 😂😂😂😂😂 |
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:30:57 GMT 5
Hello ladies and gentleman, as you guys have seen in the last few months, MountainLord (ML), has posted all of his tiger "superiority" accounts, well thats awesome. So, even after he posted all of his accounts and reports, i see that the poll is 14 to 7 in favour of the brown bear, this means that all of what he posted is good to convince him, but obviously no one else. Thats the point.
Ok so now, its time to see the other side, the bear's side ok guys? The side that ML completely ignores. So let us start. You are just like your sister, mountainlord 🤣🤣🤣🤣 cherry picking and spreading misinformation. Not bias, so funny 😂😂😂 You will never say or show anything you don't like, try being objective fangirl 😂😂😂😂😂 Lmao. Why is this guy treating me bad? I didnt come for this. Mods? I just came here to debate good. Ok so i will start. |
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tijkil
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 58
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Post by tijkil on Feb 17, 2020 9:32:24 GMT 5
You are just like your sister, mountainlord 🤣🤣🤣🤣 cherry picking and spreading misinformation. Not bias, so funny 😂😂😂 You will never say or show anything you don't like, try being objective fangirl 😂😂😂😂😂 Lmao. Why is this guy treating me bad? I didnt come for this. Mods? I just came here to debate good. Ok so i will start. No, you have already been banned, fangirl. |
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:38:05 GMT 5
Ok lets start by addressing MountainLord's "fight statistics" ok. So he posted his statistics at Animal fight club, which is Paul Cooper's forum, this is his post....
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalinfoforum/siberian-tiger-vs-brown-bear-fight-statistics-the--t110.html#p1143
So right after he posted those "fight statistics" , look what Paul Cooper told him. (Paul Cooper is one of the most famous and fanatical tiger fans, he is one of the smartest also).
PAUL COOPER
Didnt you already post this?? You just cherry pick what favors your own preconceived ideas. You already know there is a lot of other info in the bear vs tiger debate. Bears are very large animals, larger than tigers, and its common sense that they will win in a fight, its not even a fair fight because of the way bears are built and are robust and are larger. Its just common sense, tigers are my favorite animal, i dont even care about bear vs tiger, its like tiger vs elephant, who cares its not a fair comparison and proves nothing.
This is not like lion vs tiger. If bears and tigers were the same size usually then that is debatable.
Post # 5
www.tapatalk.com/groups/animalinfoforum/siberian-tiger-vs-brown-bear-fight-statistics-the--t110.html#p1143
So as you guys can see, not even one of the most fanatical and smartest TIGER fans believe him. So what does this tell you guys?
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:39:50 GMT 5
Lmao. Why is this guy treating me bad? I didnt come for this. Mods? I just came here to debate good. Ok so i will start. No, you have already been banned, fangirl. |
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:48:03 GMT 5
Ok so lets continue, yeah, in the wild, tigers kill more bears than the other way around, no one denies this. Tigers are the full time hunters, bears are only 10-20% carnivores. But what ML fails to tell you is that tigers are "ambush predators" , this means they attack all animals from the back or from an elevated position, this has been documented and proven over and over again. One thing is "ambush hunting" and another thing is "face to face fighting". Tigers barely fight face to face. When the ambush fails, they mostly run away, that is the nature of all the felines. So, most accounts of tigers killing bears are in the WILD, hence ambush, not a face to face fight.
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Post by DonaldCengXiongAzuma on Feb 17, 2020 9:53:47 GMT 5
Regarding the accounts which talks about tigers regularly hunting bears refers to tigers which have specialised in hunting bear (e.g. Dale, Misha). These tigers have become specialised in hunting Asiatic black bears (both male and females) and adult female brown bears.
There are also accounts which talks about Siberian tigers killing large adult brown bears (gender unspecified). Large brown bears can refer to large females.
Dale Macquelle even said that some tigers have learn to hunt bears, therefore not all bears win in fights with tigers. These bears refer to female brown bears which are almost the same weight as these tigers.
The sources which say that tigers include bears in their diet 38% of the time also refers
to these tiger specialise.
Generally according to Dale Macquelle, both Asiatic black bears and Ussuri brown bears are included in the Siberian tiger’s diet but consist only 2.2% of the striped cat’s diet. In conclusion, a Siberian tiger stands a good chance to kill an Ussuri brown bear it’s own weight (which would be female). Female Ussuri brown bears are heavier than Asiatic black bears on average. A sub adult male brown bear can also be taken by ambush. However, an 800 to 1000 pound mature male Ussuri brown bears are too much for even the largest Siberian tiger. An average male Ussuri brown bear at 582 to 595 pounds (analysis done by Geuta
Gojira) will beat an average male Siberian tiger.
There are more records of tigers killing bears than vice versa because the striped cats a full time hunters while bears are omnivores.
While there are large Ussuri male brown bears that have fled from tiger tracks, there are still no records of male brown bears being killed by tigers. These male Ussuri brown bears probably have a more timid personality. From one of Brobear’s book, the grizzly bears have the same personality as the seven dwafts.
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pablo
Junior Member Rank 1
Posts: 31
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Post by pablo on Feb 17, 2020 9:56:21 GMT 5
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