Post by creature386 on Jun 10, 2014 14:32:24 GMT 5
As you know, most right-wingers are Christians. I can see some support of right-wing thinking in Christianity (the rejection of homosexuality for example). But without going in detain a lot, there is one core point of right-wingism:
The economy.
Capitalists support a free market economy, with few regulations. This means things can get easily privatized. To show you an extreme example, Nestlé (Swiss food concern) privatizes water in some third world countries, to make more many. Many people of course can't pay there and therefore a lot of poverty is created. The entrepreneurs however make a lot of money. Most of the wealth in some countries is also financed through the suffering of people in Africa. Africans (especially children) are cheap labor force, the companies can see everything cheaper, the people can consume more, wealth is created. Even within the countries, such disparities can be created. There are rich countries like Germany, Singapore or Italy (Switzerland is also among them, even though they wanted to enforce one) which have no minimum wage. This means that such exploitation can exist within the borders of rich countries as well. Then there are the guest workers in Arab countries who are treated like crap and finance the prosperity of the Arabs. OK, Singapore and the Orient are of course no Christian societies, but I just gave examples for how these things work.
This is of course a pretty one-sided depiction, but without discussing about your own view whether capitalism is evil or not, I want to know if Christianity can actually agree with it. Historically, Christianity was used to justify capitalism. The concept is simple. Poor people are favored in Christianity and hence you can easily tell them "If you work hard for low wages, you get in heaven". During the cold war, Christianity was also seen as a protection from socialism.
But, the interesting question is the following. My father is a socialist and therefore doesn't like religion that much (except for Orthodox-Christianity), but he and a friend of him in Belgrade have the thesis that Christianity and capitalism can't coexist and that Jesus was the first communist.
The Bible makes clear statements on rich people:
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
Mark 10, 25
And clear statements on poor people:
"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied."
Matthew 5:3-6
Finally, an unambiguously communist message:
"Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. Thus Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barnabas (which means son of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet."
Acts of the Apostles 4:32-37.
What is the irony? It are mostly the Christian parties who support economic growth. How does economic growth happen? Through consumption of course. In the other hand, it are the less religious left-wing parties who want a more fair distribution of wealth who want to regulate more who are not so much into massive consumption ect. Not to mention that I think you know who supports defense spending more…
Pacifism is another subject where I can provide more quotes, the Sermon of the Mount should tell you enough though.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
I don't want to discuss about politics so much, nor I want to influence your votes or something, but I want to know what you think about the relationship of Christianity and capitalism. I am personally convinced that the Bible doesn't allow it. In the ideal world according to the Bible, nobody is rich, but everyone has what he needs.
That of course doesn't mean that I think Christians are communists, especially because communists are against a God, so they can't coexist either. I am just saying that their imagination of economy has a lot in common.
The economy.
Capitalists support a free market economy, with few regulations. This means things can get easily privatized. To show you an extreme example, Nestlé (Swiss food concern) privatizes water in some third world countries, to make more many. Many people of course can't pay there and therefore a lot of poverty is created. The entrepreneurs however make a lot of money. Most of the wealth in some countries is also financed through the suffering of people in Africa. Africans (especially children) are cheap labor force, the companies can see everything cheaper, the people can consume more, wealth is created. Even within the countries, such disparities can be created. There are rich countries like Germany, Singapore or Italy (Switzerland is also among them, even though they wanted to enforce one) which have no minimum wage. This means that such exploitation can exist within the borders of rich countries as well. Then there are the guest workers in Arab countries who are treated like crap and finance the prosperity of the Arabs. OK, Singapore and the Orient are of course no Christian societies, but I just gave examples for how these things work.
This is of course a pretty one-sided depiction, but without discussing about your own view whether capitalism is evil or not, I want to know if Christianity can actually agree with it. Historically, Christianity was used to justify capitalism. The concept is simple. Poor people are favored in Christianity and hence you can easily tell them "If you work hard for low wages, you get in heaven". During the cold war, Christianity was also seen as a protection from socialism.
But, the interesting question is the following. My father is a socialist and therefore doesn't like religion that much (except for Orthodox-Christianity), but he and a friend of him in Belgrade have the thesis that Christianity and capitalism can't coexist and that Jesus was the first communist.
The Bible makes clear statements on rich people:
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”
Mark 10, 25
And clear statements on poor people:
"And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God."
Luke 6:20
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied."
Matthew 5:3-6
Finally, an unambiguously communist message:
"Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. Thus Joseph, who was also called by the apostles Barnabas (which means son of encouragement), a Levite, a native of Cyprus, sold a field that belonged to him and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet."
Acts of the Apostles 4:32-37.
What is the irony? It are mostly the Christian parties who support economic growth. How does economic growth happen? Through consumption of course. In the other hand, it are the less religious left-wing parties who want a more fair distribution of wealth who want to regulate more who are not so much into massive consumption ect. Not to mention that I think you know who supports defense spending more…
Pacifism is another subject where I can provide more quotes, the Sermon of the Mount should tell you enough though.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
I don't want to discuss about politics so much, nor I want to influence your votes or something, but I want to know what you think about the relationship of Christianity and capitalism. I am personally convinced that the Bible doesn't allow it. In the ideal world according to the Bible, nobody is rich, but everyone has what he needs.
That of course doesn't mean that I think Christians are communists, especially because communists are against a God, so they can't coexist either. I am just saying that their imagination of economy has a lot in common.