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Post by sam1 on Oct 16, 2019 15:41:08 GMT 5
Uuh I have noted that and talked about it a few posts ago. I know about the scaling with orca but it is irrelevant since Livyatan is not a delphinid. By this criterion, are we going to infer that an adult Brygmophyseter would be more potent and powerful than an orca at parity length ?  Seriously? You are contradicting yourself, to say the least.. Also, in terms of biting potential, the image obviously speaks for itself. |
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Post by Grey on Oct 16, 2019 15:48:29 GMT 5
No, you simply don't read me correctly, wake up : theworldofanimals.proboards.com/post/47875Yes the image speaks for itself. So Brygmophyseter would be more powerful than orcas, but somehow did not take the place as ultimate apex predator in the Neogene despite the dominance of the similar size but smaller-jawed Briggs orcas today. So what is the point, Livyatan has larger jaws than megalodon at last ? I thought you see the shark as the penultimate marine apex hunter. |
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Post by sam1 on Oct 16, 2019 16:23:29 GMT 5
No, you simply don't read me correctly, wake up : theworldofanimals.proboards.com/post/47875Yes the image speaks for itself. So Brygmophyseter would be more powerful than orcas, but somehow did not take the place as ultimate apex predator in the Neogene despite the dominance of the similar size but smaller-jawed Briggs orcas today. So what is the point, Livyatan has larger jaws than megalodon at last ? I thought you see the shark as the penultimate marine apex hunter. Oh my gosh..okay I've read you the wrong way but now your reply also brings so much context tearing. I've been the one repeating it's not all about the jaws after all. Yet you seem to keep looking through the jaw size prism? Anyway, sorry but I still don't see what is your point actually. Can you clarify more? I've never said the orcas are dominant for their jaws. It's mostly their social intelligence combined with physical attributes. We don't know anything about how brygmophyseter compared in the former aspect. Then, have you considered that proportionally smaller jaws and bigger body can give advantages in other areas? Orca's speed, endurance and athleticism are also one of the factors that allow it to tackle unmatched range of prey. p.s. I said megalodon is the ultimate killer, not hunter. Don't jump to conclusions. |
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Post by sam1 on Oct 16, 2019 16:45:14 GMT 5
p.s.#2
again,my opinion about Livyatan jaws is that they were more than capable of causing lethal damage on megalodon. Proportionally they are much more formidable than those of an orca. But also less voluminous, and less effective in terms of outright damage than megalodon jaws.
Different types but both extreme.
Megalodon's are extreme slice and tear (with additional crush abilities) type, while livyatan's seem like an extreme grip, tear and crush type (with some slicing abilities, as indicated by interlocking patterns)
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Post by Verdugo on Oct 16, 2019 18:14:58 GMT 5
Where did you get this illustration from? Just curious about the authors. I know the Brygmophysester is made by Bran Artworks but i don't know about the Orca |
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Post by Grey on Oct 17, 2019 14:29:53 GMT 5
It is all from Jaime Bran, I will ask him about the orca.
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Post by Verdugo on Oct 17, 2019 17:59:04 GMT 5
It is all from Jaime Bran, I will ask him about the orca. No worries, i found it on his Twitter. He just did not post it on his Deviant Art |
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Post by elosha11 on Oct 17, 2019 21:00:02 GMT 5
Uuh I have noted that and talked about it a few posts ago. I know about the scaling with orca but it is irrelevant since Livyatan is not a delphinid. By this criterion, are we going to infer that an adult Brygmophyseter would be more potent and powerful than an orca at parity length ? Out of curiosity, are these supposed to be parity-length animals, and if so, what are the lengths supposed to be? I'd guess 7-8 meters judging by the meter scale. But I also note it doesn't really seem to be parity, since the Brygmo's tail is bent and it is not completely horizontal (and it still looks slightly longer than the orca). This might suggest the Brygmo in question is maybe half a meter longer than the orca. I do find it interesting that not only are brygmo's jaws far larger at parity than the orcas (and orca's jaws are still quite large and presumed to be powerful) but that Brygomo's overall bone structure (ribs, vertebrae) appear to be larger as well. The orca already has both a heavy skeletal system to support its very robust frame. Is this implying that Brygmophyseter was even more robust and heavier (as well as much larger jaws) at similar lengths? Does anyone want to comment on the accuracy of this depiction. Will provide further comments in the main topic when I have more time. |
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Post by elosha11 on Oct 17, 2019 21:03:18 GMT 5
Also, I will note that the orca in question appears to be a female, which are notably less robust than males, even at equal length. Of course, we have no idea (to my knowledge) the sex of the brygmo holotype which presumably was referenced to make this depiction.
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 17, 2019 21:22:49 GMT 5
Also, I will note that the orca in question appears to be a female, which are notably less robust than males, even at equal length. Do female killer whales get to around 7 meters? I was assuming male going by the dimensions |
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Post by theropod on Oct 17, 2019 21:42:51 GMT 5
The Brygmophyseter skeletal is about 6.1 m long measured along the spinal curvature to where the tail notch would probably be. The orca is about 5.8 m in the same measurement. Besides, female orcas do get to 7 m, but that’s irrelevant as even without measuring its size you can easily tell that the shown animal is meant to represent a female.
I think a few years ago I demonstrated rather clearly that Brygmophyseter would have to be about the same mass as an orca at parity length, considering the width of its skull and the depth of its ribcage. Or to be precise, Livyatan based on Brygmophyseter, the latter’s somewhat more elongated skull would make it slightly longer at the same girth, but it is probably not enough to put it outside the range of variation seen in orcas (known specimens range from 12 to 18 kgm⁻³, by comparison, my Livyatan model was 14kgm⁻³).
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 17, 2019 21:52:45 GMT 5
Oh. Okay.
Well to be fair, I'm not the best at scaling using a free floating scalebar
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Post by sam1 on Oct 18, 2019 0:05:05 GMT 5
The orca indeed has a female appearance but the skeleton might've come from the male..isn't that a penis bone in both depictions?
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Post by theropod on Oct 18, 2019 1:22:05 GMT 5
sam1 Cetaceans don’t have baculi. dinosauria101 You don’t need size to tell apart male and female orcas.  |
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Post by dinosauria101 on Oct 18, 2019 1:24:41 GMT 5
Interesting; linger male dorsal fins.
Yeah, that's pretty handy
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