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Post by elosha11 on Jun 13, 2021 20:28:06 GMT 5
How would the jaw gape comparison look now that the yorktown meg is at 65 feet long? The Yorktown Megalodon's associated dentition represents a fairly large, but not maximum sized, animal. I think the Yorktown set represents something like a 16 to 17 meter shark. I don't recall the widest anterior/lateral tooth in the Yorktown set, but it is significantly smaller than the largest known teeth. The researchers based their 65ft estimate on the Gordon Hubbell tooth, which they thought was likely a lateral 1 or lateral 2. That tooth is one of the largest, although not necessarily the very largest, tooth known to science. It was meticulously measured by the researchers. That being said, which animal could open its jaws wider, and thus had the greater gape angle is an open question. Sam1 has posted pictures of sperm whales opening their mouths to much greater than would be expected gape angles, but I'm not sure whether Livyatan's much thicker jaws and bone structure would do the same. On the other hand, we know lamnid and other predatory sharks usually have a very wide gape. As to the size of the bite, we can assume Livyatan's longer nostrum means it could bite more deeply across the surface of a competitor / prey, but OTOH, Megalodon's jaws were substantially wider, as well as quite deep. We've had multiple discussions about this before, but I still remain of the opinion that Megalodon likely had a more voluminous bite at parity. And if it was significantly larger than the Livyatan, that bite volume difference would only be amplified at maximum size. |
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hypezephyr
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Post by hypezephyr on Jun 16, 2021 7:01:08 GMT 5
Ah, I see. Thanks for the reply!
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hypezephyr
Junior Member Rank 1
“Tetrapod superiority!”
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Post by hypezephyr on Jun 16, 2021 10:33:41 GMT 5
Speaking of jaw gapes tho, I tried my hands at trying to compare a 65 foot megalodon’s jaw to that of a 60 foot livyatan   They’re not as accurate as Sam1’s model (obviously) but this is more or less just a rough digital comparison between the 2 and their jaws side to side. The Livyatan’s jaws are still a tad-bit greater than the meg if we use the 75* degree jaw gape model Sam1 proposed but they’re mostly equal. If we use the Livyatan 45* degree jaw gape model tho, even the regular 60 ft meg by far exceeds the livyatan’s jaw gape. Its also interesting to note that the livyatan’s jaws (75 degree or 45 degree) are too elongated but not wide enough to fit the mid section of a 65 foot meg in its jaw. The only way a livyatan can use its jaw against the meg is if it scrapes the meg’s side with the upper frontward teeth or target the thinner rear tail. This is made worse with the fact its teeth are conical, meaning the upper teeth need the help of the bottom teeth placement in order to direct full pressure at its point to puncture prey. With a 65 foot meg’s mid torso being bigger than a livyatan’s head and jaw gape, I imagine this is gonna be as hard as trying to chew a watermelon with your teeth alone. Maybe this is something someone else could correct me on? Because if correct, the livyatan is at a severe mismatch here based on the fact it can only target a specific portion of the meg whereas the meg could target most portions of the livyatan indiscriminately. One thing the livyatan could do tho is to ram the meg instead of biting it. Edit: I really wish I could remove those cheeks on the meg tho. Attachments:
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jun 16, 2021 16:35:44 GMT 5
Stupid question but which image depicts which gape? For some reason the two comparisons on top look similar to each other.
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hypezephyr
Junior Member Rank 1
“Tetrapod superiority!”
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Post by hypezephyr on Jun 17, 2021 6:03:26 GMT 5
The ones on top are both the same. Its just that the animals are differently placed in each image.
The first image is depicting the meg's jaw gape and the liv's jaw gape side to side if their lower jaws were put at the same level.
The second image on the other hand is just the same image but the Livyatan and Meg's jaws are poised in the way they would use them to bite their prey.
The second one compares their jaw gapes better tho if you're looking for an image more similar to Sam1's image.
The attachment below is just an image that was accidentally placed there.
I was attempting to somehow fit a stoutnosed meg's model on the great white shark's jaw anatomy in the bottom pic just for reference.
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Post by kekistani on Jun 17, 2021 22:34:39 GMT 5
The ones on top are both the same. Its just that the animals are differently placed in each image. The first image is depicting the meg's jaw gape and the liv's jaw gape side to side if their lower jaws were put at the same level. The second image on the other hand is just the same image but the Livyatan and Meg's jaws are poised in the way they would use them to bite their prey. The second one compares their jaw gapes better tho if you're looking for an image more similar to Sam1's image. The attachment below is just an image that was accidentally placed there. I was attempting to somehow fit a stoutnosed meg's model on the great white shark's jaw anatomy in the bottom pic just for reference. Img didn't go through I think EDIT: NV, I see you posted them above, got confused
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Post by elosha11 on Jun 25, 2022 2:18:06 GMT 5
SVP abstract. It concludes that the isotopic levels do not suggest the Livyatan specimen was completely macrophagous, meaning always consuming large animals. This does possibly suggest that this specimen, at least, was feeding at a lower trophic level than the Megalodons tested in the recent study. I do note that this seems to be determining isotopic levels based on oxygen and carbon composition, whereas the Megalodon study was based on isotopic levels produced by nitrogen. I'm not sure if it makes a difference.  |
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Post by Infinity Blade on Jun 26, 2022 4:02:39 GMT 5
If both of these isotope analyses ring true, then Otodus megalodon and Livyatan melvillei were pretty weird animals, in addition to their large size. The shark being an apex predator that ate predators and predators that ate other predators, and the whale, despite its large jaw muscles and teeth almost as big as a two-liter soda bottle, not always eating large prey.
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